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Transportation Apple

Apple Hiring Automotive Experts 138

Posted by Soulskill from the cars-with-just-one-button dept.
An anonymous reader writes: A report at the Financial Times (paywalled) says Apple is on an aggressive hiring push to pick up automotive experts. Recent rumors suggest Apple is putting together a transportation research lab, and nobody outside the company is quite sure why. It's unlikely they's want to build an entire car themselves, but quite possible they see a big space for Apple technology within motor vehicles, much as Google seems to. They already have CarPlay, and it will doubtless grow, but we still don't have anything approaching a dominant platform for car software. Whatever they're working on, it looks like the competition for more robust computer technology in cars is heating up.
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Apple Hiring Automotive Experts More

Apple Hiring Automotive Experts

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  • Ba dum tis (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 13, 2015 @09:17PM (#49052323)

    I hope that the batteries are replaceable

  • "It's unlikely they's [sic] want to build an entire car themselves"

    The Wall Street Journal is reporting that that's exactly what Apple wants to do.

  • If Apple made a car... (Score:5, Funny)

    by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ) on Friday February 13, 2015 @09:53PM (#49052491) Journal

    Would it have windows?

  • It would be great if google and apple enter ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday February 13, 2015 @09:55PM (#49052505) Journal
    The automotive electronics is in terrible shape. The auto engineers do not understand security, their computers have existed without network connections in isolation for a long time. Now data connections are making their way deep into the cars and recently BMW had a security update affecting some 2 million cars. It was apparently communicating to the servers nearly in clear text.

    Further the bean counters think the dash space to be some sort of profit center. "They bought our car right? Let us make them pay 200$ for map DVD upgrade, 1800$ for navigational package, ha ha haa, you negotiated 800$ using edmunds.com and truecar.com? Well buddy, I will get that money back, 900$ for mp3 player! ".

    Further they are used to product cycles running into decade or more and taking 9 months to admit the ignition switch has a problem and six years to hide it from NTSB. They are not used to software release cycle speeds of once in 8 months or once a year.

    They used to do this with car radios and make it impossible to install after market radios. Then SAE defined standard connectors and that market got some real competition. It is high time SAE define user interface API for the common things and allow third parties to come in with custom made tablets to be integrated into the cars. With the 3D printing advances, we could get clean molded plastic brackets that fit almost as good as factory made dash with custom tablets. The market is ripe. Hope two really big companies with good customer base enter and do a serious fight for market share.

    • Re:It would be great if google and apple enter ... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by m00sh ( 2538182 ) on Friday February 13, 2015 @10:35PM (#49052625)

      The automotive electronics is in terrible shape. The auto engineers do not understand security, their computers have existed without network connections in isolation for a long time. Now data connections are making their way deep into the cars and recently BMW had a security update affecting some 2 million cars. It was apparently communicating to the servers nearly in clear text.

      Further the bean counters think the dash space to be some sort of profit center. "They bought our car right? Let us make them pay 200$ for map DVD upgrade, 1800$ for navigational package, ha ha haa, you negotiated 800$ using edmunds.com and truecar.com? Well buddy, I will get that money back, 900$ for mp3 player! ".

      Further they are used to product cycles running into decade or more and taking 9 months to admit the ignition switch has a problem and six years to hide it from NTSB. They are not used to software release cycle speeds of once in 8 months or once a year.

      They used to do this with car radios and make it impossible to install after market radios. Then SAE defined standard connectors and that market got some real competition. It is high time SAE define user interface API for the common things and allow third parties to come in with custom made tablets to be integrated into the cars. With the 3D printing advances, we could get clean molded plastic brackets that fit almost as good as factory made dash with custom tablets. The market is ripe. Hope two really big companies with good customer base enter and do a serious fight for market share.

      Automotive electronics developers would say the same thing about consumer communication protocols. It is a mess that can't guarantee anything for even a simple control setup.

      There are plenty of people putting car computers etc in their cars. When manufacturers put in an entertainment system and someone crashes and dies because of something in it, fingers are pointed to the car manufacturers. They always have to worry about SAFETY!

      This isn't like a consumer device that if it crashes or freezes, it's not a big deal. If a car software system crashes, people die.

      Speaking of GM ignition switch problem, it perhaps affected one person or at most a few and they had to do multi-billion dollar recall. Windows has security holes that affects millions and they just issue a fix whenever they feel like it and just tell the users not to do stupid things. Completely different systems.

      • Automotive electronics developers would say the same thing about consumer communication protocols. It is a mess that can't guarantee anything for even a simple control setup.

        Avionics engineers (and I am one, retired) would say "what's your point?"

        Automobiles have obvious life-threatening failure modes, duh, and probably should be held to a high standard of safety, derp, just like they are in physical aspects such as crash-worthyness, *Timmer*!

        Oh, I see. You're arguing that it's OK to have shitty software because, well, everyone does!.

        Speaking of GM ignition switch problem, it perhaps affected one person or at most a few and they had to do multi-billion dollar recall. [...]

        I keep looking for astroturfers on this forum. Is this one obvious, or are there more perfect examples I haven't found?

        • well to be fair, i had one of those GM cars with the ignition switch issue. the only thing is to me it was not a bug but a feature. I could start my car, lock it back up with it running and keep the key on me. this is great on days like today that are -20 with the wind. (not as nice as a remote start obviously but still)

          If you cant drive and focus on driving simply because they key pops out of the ignition, well you got bigger problems in life anyway

          • well to be fair, i had one of those GM cars with the ignition switch issue. the only thing is to me it was not a bug but a feature. I could start my car, lock it back up with it running and keep the key on me. this is great on days like today that are -20 with the wind. (not as nice as a remote start obviously but still)

            If you cant drive and focus on driving simply because they key pops out of the ignition, well you got bigger problems in life anyway

            Whether it's a bug or feature is certainly a fair argument.

            To my mind, if you can't predict when the key will pop out then it's a bug.

            Also, it appears to have killed 38 people [detroitnews.com].

            • having had the issue myself, I stand by my statement.

              If anyone died from the key popping out, chances are they were due a darwin award anyway.

              Realistically i doubt that a single death is attributed to this "problem" but when the lawyers come out, all of a sudden that tree you hit at 100 miles of hour would not have happened if only the key stayed put

              • Re:Bug or feature? (Score:4, Informative)

                by deviated_prevert ( 1146403 ) on Saturday February 14, 2015 @06:32AM (#49053947) Journal

                having had the issue myself, I stand by my statement.

                If anyone died from the key popping out, chances are they were due a darwin award anyway.

                Realistically i doubt that a single death is attributed to this "problem" but when the lawyers come out, all of a sudden that tree you hit at 100 miles of hour would not have happened if only the key stayed put

                HUH? The problem is with the the ignition switch flipping to accessory because of a weak spring and pin in the design of the position set cylinder and mechanism. This causes the essential systems like power steering and brakes to shut off while driving down the road. Now lets suppose this happens at over 70 mph because the driver has a huge key chain that is heavy and some how it gets bumped or the car goes over a rough road that jostles the key chain. In my estimation that could cause some serious problems even for experienced drivers especially if you go to turn the wheel and have never driven without power steering which most people today have never done!

                The worst thing that the driver could do in response is to shift the transmission into neutral or what we old school truckers call "Mexican overdrive" And this might very well be a response to sudden engine failure for an inexperience driver with either and automatic transmission or manual. So they would lose engine breaking at that point as well as power breaks and steering. If the driver is quick enough and the traffic is clear and they are on a straight stretch of road just maybe they will have time to restart the engine but modern cars will not start in gear so they will have to switch to neutral to restart the engine. Switching an automatic to park moving at 70 is also not a viable option for restarting the engine of a run away car or truck.

                Yes cars are still designed by law to steer correctly if there is a sudden loss of power assist to the steering assembly. It is the law. It is also the law that cars have a working emergency brake and that is why it is called an emergency brake but again with today's drivers, who are given a license to drive without ever having had to use one in an emergency or practice slowing a vehicle with one, how many unfortunate people who died from this simple little fault in GM's ignition switches actually tried to apply the emergency brake?

                Please get your facts straight and read and listen for the truth about what goes on in the real world!
                If APPLE actually has decided to take a crack at redesigning the automobile GREAT it is about frigging time someone other than Tesla got down to brass tacks and kicked the industry into the 21st century!

                Here is a big slice of reality to think about if you even understand or comprehend what F=V squared means. A car with a mass of over 3000 lbs traveling at 70 mph has how much kinetic energy to be expended before it stops? You do the math. That is not even considering if the vehicle is on a down slope and is being accelerated by gravity so a paltry hand brake that only works on the rear breaks for a good reason will a take huge amount of force from either the arm or foot to apply for a long period before the car actually slows down to a safe speed, if the inexperience driver is on a road with tight bends an lots of traffic chances are disaster is waiting at the next corner.

                The issues with the ignition switch were a good example of stagnation in design and it is about time someone with vision and bucks to burn started to seriously think about how to wean us away from our love of gas guzzling rolling death traps that is essentially what the auto industry and today's frantic transportation methods have become.

                Our passion for the auto is breaking us financially, socially and worst of all it is a huge waist of resources. It creates untold damage to the environment we live in because it requires the use of huge quantities of raw tar from oil to pave vast amounts of the land that supports us. We make road at the expense of fish rearing

            • Um did you read that whole article. Don't even have to read the whole thing. Its far more than 38.

          • If you cant drive and focus on driving simply because they key pops out of the ignition, well you got bigger problems in life anyway

            I think you meant to type 'the engine kills and power steering stops working. And the airbags become disabled.'

    • Re:It would be great if google and apple enter ... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Saturday February 14, 2015 @12:33AM (#49053093) Journal

      I don't *want* fancy electronics my car that doesn't adhere to some standard interface.

      I want music to adhere to a standard interface, EG: RCA connectors. I don't expect navigation in the dash - I'm perfectly happy using my phone. I'd be good with it playing through the soundsystem via a standard interface, EG: bluetooth.

      If you take care of them, cars last a long time. I'm *still* driving a 2001 Chrysler convertible, and it not only has a CD player, but also a cassette tape! I can't imagine using CDs or tapes - all my music is in my phone. The car only has 120k miles, I'll probably get another half decade out of it, at least. (And yes, I'm aware that the Chrysler convertibles have a bad reputation; emphasis on take care of them )

      I want my car to be a car, and not try to include technology with a life cycle of 3-5 years. I don't *want* my car to have a built in cellular wifi, because the cellular network will likely be upgraded well before the car dies, making the feature worthless at best, but more likely a security or reliability concern. I don't *want* my car to have built-in navigation, as whatever system it has will be hopelessly obsolete long before I'm ready to turn in the drivetrain.

      Instead, I propose that cars can have an in-dash screen that may (or may not) have it's own "smarts" but is also usable as a simple screen via something like HDMI with touch feedback so that later, I can use some new whiz bang thingie that hasn't been invented yet.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Curtman ( 556920 ) *
        The future is now [ebay.com]...

      • Instead, I propose that cars can have an in-dash screen that may (or may not) have it's own "smarts" but is also usable as a simple screen via something like HDMI with touch feedback so that later, I can use some new whiz bang thingie that hasn't been invented yet.

        If you actually have a car with DIN slots you can slip a popout touchscreen hdmi or vga display in there. But yeah, we'd all like to see standards-based interfaces on those pop-out displays in cars.

        • If you actually have a car with DIN slots you can slip a popout touchscreen hdmi or vga display in there. But yeah, we'd all like to see standards-based interfaces on those pop-out displays in cars.

          Unfortunately, many cars no longer have DIN openings, and even more importantly, are using proprietary busses so even if an aftermarket radio fits you can't connect to the speakers, etc . and have to rewire everything.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mjwx ( 966435 )

        If you take care of them, cars last a long time. I'm *still* driving a 2001 Chrysler convertible, and it not only has a CD player, but also a cassette tape!

        Sweet Jeebus,

        I drive a 2001 Nissan 200sx (that would be an S15 that was never made in wrong hand drive). The car is ostensibly 90's and even that didn't come with a tape deck. Of course the first thing I did was rip out the original CD player and put in a MP3 capable head unit.

        But I get what you're saying. The fact replacing my stereo was a 30 minute job is because it was just a stereo and not connected to the CANBUS or anything stupid like that. Would have been nice if Nissan used an ISO connector bu

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      Actually some manufacturers are pretty clued up on security. Nissan, for example, put two OBD-II ports in newer cars. One is accessible from the cabin but is read only and can't be used to start the car, create duplicate keys or anything silly like that. The other one is physically protected making using it for theft somewhat impractical.

      Similarly with Nissan's internet connectivity the only thing it can control is EV charging and climate control. Can't unlock the doors or anything like that. Uses a similar

    • All of the majors, save Nissan, want to focus on fuel cells and keep oil companies happy ( nearly all hydrogen is coming from nat gas and some oil; next to nothing from splitting water ). As such, if apple and google were to follow Tesla's lead, but focus on different areas, they would easily take over autos. Interestingly, right now is the first time since before 1920 that this is possible.

    • Although I agree that some of the user-facing electronics in automobiles are overpriced, the core components use time-proven technology that is reliable. Even a low-end car (sold for less than $20,000) has engine electronics that are expected to last for ten or more years, an operating temperature range of probably 0 F to 120 F, and can withstand fairly heavy vibration over its lifetime. Your average computer or phone perhaps operates from 40 to 90 (although rated for much less) and would fall apart if put

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mspohr ( 589790 )

      I agree. Automotive electronic are generally stupid and far behind times. Most every new car today has electronic features which are laughable compared to consumer electronics. Worse, they can't be upgraded and won't be upgraded so you'll be stuck with it until you sell the car. Microsoft tried to make car software which Ford used but the software was typical of the garbage that MS produces.
      It would be great if Apple made car software. We might get some good car software for a change.
      (Tesla seems to be the

  • Carjackers can apply to Apple as "automotive security experts" to do penetration testing, etc.

  • Tim Cook, Just buy Telsa (Score:5, Interesting)

    by byrddtrader ( 3988237 ) on Friday February 13, 2015 @10:58PM (#49052741)
    Apple has roughly 175 billion in cash and Tesla's current market cap is around 35B. If Apple wants to get into the car business might as well jump in feet first. Not to mention you get one of the greatest CEO visionaries Elon Musk, since Steve Jobs. The Wall Street Journal is reporting today that Apple is building its one electric vehicle that resembles a minivan.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ganjadude ( 952775 )
      dear god no. do NOT ruin all the good over at tesla by bringing it under apple. that is the last thing i want to see with tesla

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jammz ( 55986 )

      Good lord no!

      Tesla is still sexy even though their latest financials look rough. If Mr. Cook truly wanted to by them, it wouldn't be for $35B. Acquisitions like Tesla would demand a premium, bare minimum of 50% I'd guess. That's about $53B as a bare minimum. That would be very hard to justify, when given Apple's scale and expertise, they could likely build their own automotive group for $10-15B.

      Also keep in mind that Tim Cook is brilliant too. There probably isn't a better tech CEO anywhere when it come

      • Also keep in mind that Tim Cook is brilliant too. There probably isn't a better tech CEO anywhere when it comes to hardball negotiations, logistical strategy and planning.

        I'm genuinely interested, but what evidence is there of that? So far, my impressions have been he's the Steve Ballmer of Apple. That is, not the visionary but trying to maintain the status quo and futilely trying to break into other markets. Maybe that's enough to be more brilliant than other tech CEOs though (e.g., the MS trojan CEO at Nokia that tanked them)?

      • The core of the argument here is understanding who Tim Cook is and his background. At the heart he is a operations guy. He has done good things for the stock since Jobs passed but he has not introduced any earth shattering products during his tenure. The success of Apple Pay might fall into this category at some point but that is yet to be seen. Apple needs a visionary in its executive ranks on par with Jobs and Musk is someone that fits that bill, then after a few years you make Musk CEO. The question here
    • First off, Tesla has higher quality standards than what apple is used to. And apple would lower Tesla's standards to being like a caddie Audi, BMW, mb, etc: just more junk. Far better would be for apple, and ideally google to start plants for electric cars out there. They should make their own cars, but try to outcompete Tesla. With competition, combined with cooperation, these 3 could easily take the industry and bring new meaning to the big 3.

    • Apple has roughly 175 billion in cash and Tesla's current market cap is around 35B. If Apple wants to get into the car business might as well jump in feet first. Not to mention you get one of the greatest CEO visionaries Elon Musk, since Steve Jobs. The Wall Street Journal is reporting today that Apple is building its one electric vehicle that resembles a minivan.

      Why buy Tesla when you can hire them [sfgate.com] for a lot less:

      Musk also said Apple has been trying to poach Tesla employees, offering $250,000 signing bonuses and 60 percent salary increases.

      “Apple tries very hard to recruit from Tesla,” he said. “But so far they’ve actually recruited very few people.”

      So is Apple making those offers because they think those employees are that valuable to Apple, or to Tesla?

  • iCar (Score:2)

    by swell ( 195815 )

    A search for 'iCar' will bring speculation and images to tickle your fancy. Facts may be harder to find.

  • 2003 (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bugs2squash ( 1132591 )
    My car is over 10 years old and will still go about as fast as it did when I bought it, new. My iphone 4 is way younger and runs nowhere near as quickly on the latest iOS as it did on previous versions. These apple cars will be real unpopular after about the third software version upgrade when they can only do 20 miles/hr and need to be traded in for something thinner.

  • Design (Score:3)

    by GrahamCox ( 741991 ) on Saturday February 14, 2015 @12:14AM (#49053041) Homepage
    I see terrible design all the time - washing machines, TVs, PVRs and of course cars. It's getting worse - the rush to put a touch screen in every Holden (GM's Australian arm) and execrable crap like BMWs iDrive and Ford's whateveritscalled convoluted garbage. It needs taking by the scruff of the neck and kicking into touch, and if anyone is in a position to do it, it's Apple. While their approach is not perfect, it's usually somewhat better than most alternatives. When I hit yet another irritating and apparently arbitrary snag point in the software system of my PVR for example, I often wish Apple would make one just to show them where they've gone wrong (it's a Topfield if you're interested). As long as they make their in-car system solid and secure along with sensible usability (hint: for a car that means NOT a touch screen) they'll have a winner on their hands. As of the 2015 model year, the only way is up.

    • I thought GM was killing Holden off this year or next. And throwing a 'bone' to the Holden dealers by allowing them to sell Corvettes in Oz.

      Are you all excited and stuff? I've hated GM since they killed Saturn.

  • Here comes their claims of invention (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cHiphead ( 17854 ) on Saturday February 14, 2015 @01:48AM (#49053299)

    Google already has a developed and working self driving car, but just you wait, in 2 years they will have the 'next big thing' and it will be a self driving electric car. And it was all their idea in the first place anyway.

  • Since Apple is going to preview the new oTunes soon, it makes sense they'd prepare to expand. oTunes is Output Tunes to iTunes Input. Basically, money is output from Apple. They pay you to listen to music with the idea that when you find something you really like, you'll play it for your friends, leading to a net profit for the publisher. After beta, they're going to integrate it into one package called ioTunes, which ups the ante by letting you pay your friends to listen to songs.

    The same completion

  • ...a translucent flying car that's not compatible with Google and Microsoft gas pumps.

  • I've always wanted Apple to invent automobiles.

  • I want a basic car, with user replaceable parts. Not an all in one system that will not be supported after 2 years. Thats why so many people have little 80$ gps units stuck on their dash even though their car has gps. Either it doesn't work and to repair it would cost 800$, it needs a map update and the dealer wants $250 for a 3 year old map set or its useability is so bad the owners do not want to mess with it. European cars are terrible at useability, they say some bmw's and audi's take 7 steps to go fr
    • That's your choice. But for others of us, we want a high quality car like Tesla where they then charge 600 /year to cover nearly every thing.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • They would build an electric car. With the major car makers focused on fuel cells, they can easily jump into building and competing with them. Ideally, it would use Tesla's open patents and then focus on compact or even sub-compact with automated driving. If they work with Tesla and google, they can even come up with car ,to car and car to road communication standard.

  • Here's something that I'm having a hard time figuring out. How is it that this particular Apple team has the time and resources to design and make fancy enclosures for the stuff on the van? Speaking more generally, I've noticed that a lot of companies including ones that aren't that big or are even startups are able to do this too. What's the secret to getting some nice molded plastic enclosure without having to spend tens of thousands of dollars on tooling?

    • Buy a company that spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on tooling....

      Seriously, there are hundreds of companies that will do one-off builds of pretty much anything. It's expensive, but I'm not sure Apple is all that worried about it. Just pick your materials, wander around on the Internet until you find a vendor and email them the specs.

      Even for hobbyist stuff you can get pretty nice custom panels and enclosures if you are willing to pay for it. Doesn't really make a lot of sense for one-off projects

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