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Bill Gates: iPad Users Are Frustrated They Can't Type Or Create Documents

samzenpus posted about a year and a half ago | from the words-for-word dept.

Microsoft 618

An anonymous reader writes "While Apple views the tablet and PC markets as two separate entities, Microsoft takes the opposing view. During a CNBC interview this morning, Gates continued to toe the party line insofar as he praised the benefits of Microsoft's tablets and Windows 8 while explaining that iPad users are frustrated because they have trouble typing and creating documents. 'With Windows 8, Microsoft is trying to gain share in what has been dominated by the iPad-type device. But a lot of those users are frustrated, they can't type, they can't create documents. They don't have Office there. So we're providing them something with the benefits they've seen that have made that a big category, but without giving up what they expect in a PC.'"

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Yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647557)

You didn't have Office in Windows 7, or anything.

Re:Yeah (2, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647633)

Nobody wants a PC in the office. Users are frustrated that the punch cards and terminals that they depend on for data processing are just not available for the PC.

Re:Yeah (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647735)

Ohhhhhhh Jeeeeesuuus, can youuuuu seeeeeeeeeee... what's insiiiiiiide myyyyyyyy underrrrweeeeeeeeeeeeeear?

Re:Yeah (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647743)

But everybody wants to see why you ran here http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3717059&cid=43634223 [slashdot.org] and here http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3710615&cid=43626811 [slashdot.org] since everyone knows you're the troll that flooded slashdot with these http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276741 [slashdot.org] for months (your names on it).

Re:Yeah (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647965)

3 digit IDs can be expected to turn into crap spewing trolls with time, e.g., Taco, Soulskill, Timothy. Won't someone think of the greybeards?

Re:Yeah (5, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648059)

Are you seriously implying that touchscreen is the new, better method of input?

What exactly do you do on a computer? Im gonna guess its not

  • Writing proposals
  • Writing code
  • Doing financial work
  • Doing systems administration

Or anything, really, that involves rapidly moving data from your brain onto a computer. Or does the new Lightning connector have that capability built into it?

And... (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647561)

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Re:And... (0, Flamebait)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647605)

You're forgetting Apple and their fanboys. They fully expect tablets to displace PCs entirely. It doesn't matter if the task is well suited to the tablet form factor or not.

Now with an HDMI and USB port, there's no good reason one kind of general purpose computer can't act like another. The main limitation is policy and whether or not the guy you buy your device wants to try and lock it down.

Re:And... (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647667)

I can't imagine anybody seriously believes tablets will completely replace PCs. But I think they'll make a helluva dent (if they haven't already).

Re:And... (5, Insightful)

Nadaka (224565) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647729)

I like physical keyboards.
My Samsung galaxy S Relay has one good enough for texting and light email/browsing.
My Asus Transformer Infinity has one good enough for modest writing, it also attaches to a usb mouse.
My desktop has a really nice one with real mechanical keys.

There is literally no reason an Iphone or Ipad couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard or mouse.

Re:And... (1)

gstrickler (920733) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647897)

There is literally no reason an Iphone or Ipad couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard or mouse.

Well, you're half right. They can use bluetooth keyboards, including the Apple Wireless keyboard and many third party keyboards. Mouse is another matter, the UI is designed for touch, and while a mouse is a pointing device, it's not the same as a touch interface, so there literally is a reason it doesn't support a mouse. It's not that it couldn't support a mouse, but that would require some changes to the UI, and many apps.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43648101)

My ASUS Transformer using Android supports a mouse. The doc station even has a touch pad built right in. the UI is the same Android for all devices, tablet or phone, no need to change the the UI just to support a mouse. its just a little more awkward using the touch pad with the screen right there so i do end up using a stylus to "mouse" over things.

Re:And... (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648031)

Now with an HDMI and USB port, there's no good reason one kind of general purpose computer can't act like another.

Lack of HDMI input on monitor?

Re:And... (4, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648065)

I'm not sure where you're getting that. I don't know anyone that's bought an iPad to be their main system and if they were a true fanboy then surely they would have an iMac and or Macbook.

Re:And... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647617)

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Re:And... (4, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647639)

Because what I use my PC for and what I use my tablet for are entirely different things, and by trying to merge them into a single experience you produce a laptop I don't want to use and a tablet I don't want to use. And apparently I'm not alone, judging by the incredible failure Microsoft's Surface offerings have been.

Re:And... (1)

dingen (958134) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647781)

Because they are different things.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647823)

Just like a Personal Organizer and a phone are two different things and nobody wants to combine them!

Re:And... (5, Insightful)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647817)

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Because a fully functional PC is for content creation while a tablet is for content consumption. And many people don't understand the difference.

People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC". Last year, the two largest PC companies, HP and Lenovo, sold a combined total of 110 Million PCs. Regardless of how that compares to tablet sales or previous year's PC sales, that's a lot of computers.

While tablets have certainly become popular, due to the fact that there are a lot of content consumers out there. the rumors of the death of the PC are greatly exaggerated.

Re:And... (0)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647921)

No, people who stand around on a bus for three hours a day, warehouse stock takers, and sales reps are perfect candidates for a tablet. What's the difference between a laptop and a tablet? A frikkin keyboard and mouse! Are you people kidding me?

Fully functional PC in cramped quarters (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648051)

People who use their PC for nothing but browsing the web, occassionaly sending email and posting to Facebook or Twitter are perfect candidates for a tablet. People who do real work use a "fully functional PC".

The problem here is that the popularity of limited-purpose tablets made it unprofitable to continue to produce a "fully functional PC" with a 10 inch display [slashdot.org] . A 10 inch laptop can be easier for a bus or carpool passenger to use in cramped quarters than a 13 inch laptop.

Re:And... (1)

CCarrot (1562079) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648045)

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Same reason automobile and airplane controls are different. Different use cases, even though they're both 'transportation devices'.

Trying to force desktop or laptop users to dumb down creation tasks to fit the restrictions of a tablet gui is like asking the pilot to fly without aileron controls...technically possible, but hardly comfortable.

Re:And... (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648077)

Because a tablet is freakishly expensive to just be used for things that a laptop already does?

Re:And... (1)

WaffleMonster (969671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648083)

Perhaps you are the one who doesn't get it. Why should a fully capable PC and a tablet be two different experiences?

Cuz nobody has been able to come up with an interface that does not suck on one or both form factors?

Re:And... (5, Informative)

CannonballHead (842625) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647663)

that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC

No, but the option for more overlap is nice. Especially when it has nothing to do with actual processing power issues, and not even screen size with a tablet, but simply peripheral and OS problems.

If nothing else... PRINTING would be awfully nice from a tablet. Too bad both Android and Apple have clunky hacks (well, I'm not too familiar with the Apple one, but I understand it's not a native print-to-printer thing). It's not like it's a hard problem to solve, it's been solved for years.

Same with typing. ASUS has a good thing, IMO, going with their Transformer tablets (I own one). I think it was smart for Microsoft to do it.

I'm sure it's not for everyone. Not everyone likes smartphones, either (I don't have one) ... some for very similar reasons ("nobody seriously expects a phone to be a computer"). But, hey, some do. And I've heard, actually, some very good things about the Windows tablets. The bad thing, of course, is that they are expensive :)

Re:And... (0)

foniksonik (573572) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647809)

Get a new printer and you sure can print from an iOS device directly. AirPrint. If you have an older model the manufacturer or a 3rd party probably has an app. Epson does iPrint. Works great. Have an Artisan 800 multifunction with wifi and it works for phone and tablet.

Re:And... (2, Informative)

immaterial (1520413) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647845)

It is a "native print-to-printer" thing. Tap the share button, choose "Print." The only caveat is the printer must be AirPrint [wikipedia.org] compatible, which most (if not all) consumer printers sold now are. For people with older printers or in corporate environments with larger office printers, there is both free and commercial AirPrint server software that can make any printer available to an iOS device.

Re:And... (5, Informative)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647681)

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

I wouldn't mind if the screen on my laptop was removable, if it worked just like magic. and the usb ports on the base unit kept working when the screen was detached and it was in range. that would be sweet at home.

however the whole windows 8 thing is a masterful diversion from the real thing that MS has riding on it.. I might sound like a broken record here, but the real thing why windows 8 is significant is that they're extending microsoft tax to 3rd party software - and nobody is talking about it. on rt it's _all_ 3rd party sw, if you pay then you pay part of the money to MS, on regular 8 it's just metro stuff currently, however now they can "give in" and give the regular desktop more prominent role again in their plans and have regular desktop apps distributed through their store as well then and people will praise them for being sensible. adobe is trying to fight that with subscription model(3rd party payments?), since in the future they sure as fuck wouldn't want to pay MS 30% of a 2500 dollar sale.

Re:And... (5, Informative)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647769)

I think you are overestimating the intelligence of a very profitable demographic for the tablet market, while Gates may be more right on.

There are people who buy tablets as their PCs and only then realize why keyboards are still a thing. Hell, I've heard of a whole school that decided to get all the teachers computers, then decided to get them ipads. This was not an unpopular idea until shortly after it was actually implemented.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647859)

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

I have all sorts of users that want exactly that. They assume their ipads will do everything their workstations do.

This is not uncommon, thanks to advertising.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647887)

dude, i think you would be the one who "doesn't get it". I just had a manager come in and want me to order an iPad so he could do his work on it... but then he couldn't understand why our software won't work on it and then insisted that Apple would have it fixed soon.

Re:And... (5, Funny)

Nyder (754090) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647963)

And Microsoft keeps demonstrating that they just don't get it, that no one seriously expect a tablet to be a PC, and that no one wants their PC to be a tablet.

Ya, Bill Gates is the last person I'd take advice from when it comes to Apple products.

Re:And... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43648057)

However it occurs to me that the Surface and Windows 8 make an excellent workstation device. I often bring my laptop to meetings at work as does everyone else in the office, but it's clunky and takes up a lot of room. I've often felt my laptop is too much computer for the tasks I run (I work in supply chain, so the worst I tend to run are processor intensive excel models and SAP), but a Surface would be at right about the level needed for a standard office worker's workstation. Maybe not a software engineer or the tech people in a company, but it seems that with more and more network storage in companies, a tablet computer with a solid keyboard would be the ideal tool for most office workers.

Of course i haven't used a Surface yet and am thus speculating, so I'd be happy to be enlightened if I'm wrong.

no (1)

phorm (591458) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648097)

But I would really like it if I could use documents from my PC on my tablet, especially spreadsheets, which are great for doing things such as
* Tracking client appointments, pay, travel, expenses, etc
* Keep a budget
* Tracking mileage on my vehicle (granted there are separate apps for this)
Thus far all the apps I've used for that tend to be fairly limited

I don't expect my tablet to be a PC. I wouldn't expect to play PC games on a tablet, and I probably wouldn't do a lot of coding unless the horsepower/storage scale up a lot more, but editing documents... yeah, I wouldn't mind that.

Yes (0)

coniferous (1058330) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647573)

Ipads are wonderful reference devices and even better video game machines. There aren't many places where I would recommend them for business.

Re:Yes (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647589)

And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

You can certainly argue that business are wrong, but you can't argue with the fact that the tablet has made major inroads into the enterprise world.

Re:Yes (-1, Troll)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647689)

People are idiots.

Tablets make great media consumption devices. Design your "business use case" around that idea and you're fine. Try to pretend that your iToy is a real PC and you're going to have problems.

There are "media consumption" use cases for the business use of tablets.

The mindless hype isn't entirely bogus. Just mostly bogus.

Re:Yes (1, Troll)

djdanlib (732853) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647773)

The problem is that idiots run the world from management positions and tell us they don't care, just make it work.

Reference the guy who handed an iPad and an Office 2003 install disc and said get this working by tomorrow.

Re:Yes (1)

jon3k (691256) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648003)

A lot (a whole fucking lot) of "business" is email and web browsing. Many of those people you see are executives or management in some form so it works great for their use case. Most don't need an office suite, or use it so infrequently, they also have a desktop PC or laptop for when they need to. Shit our regional staff used to survive on nothing but a blackberry, don't ask me how. I mean, at this point, I don't see how people still wave the "it's a fad" flag. People somehow think it's a zero sum game. If you have an iPad you can't do any work. Sometimes an iPad is the right device, sometimes you need a full desktop PC.

Re:Yes (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647693)

Except that may not be a symptom of the businesses (at least the ones relevant to the conference) adopting them as much as the proliferation of journalists, bloggers, and marketeers who really don't directly DO much related to the business besides go to conferences. And that being said, if you look closer they tend to be browsing the web and checking their Facebook and Twitter feeds on their tablets and phones more than paying any attention to what's going on at the conference ;)

Ironically, these are usually the same journalists, bloggers, and marketeers claiming tablets will replace PCs for people who actually do real work as well...

Re:Yes (1)

jefe7777 (411081) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647813)

iPad Jesus spotted on i50. iDetails on at 11.

Re:Yes (1)

foniksonik (573572) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647869)

They use it as a bigger smartphone. Check email, take some quick notes, read news between presentations. Works great and yet nobody expects you to get any real work done. Perfect for conferences or meetings.

Re:Yes (3, Informative)

tlhIngan (30335) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648013)

And yet you go to any business conference nowadays, and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

You can certainly argue that business are wrong, but you can't argue with the fact that the tablet has made major inroads into the enterprise world.

Probably because of a few things.

1) Tablets are generally light and very portable and easily held in one hand. If you're at a gathering where everyone is standing, it's easy to whip out a tablet and show people stuff - while still having your other hand free to gesture and communicate and other things. One-handed use is quite important when you do not have a surface to use as a stand. Holding a laptop in one hand is often awkward, clumsy, and until the recent touch screen ones, interactions are terrible.

2) Tablets have great battery life. An iPad or Android tablet will generally last all day even if you're showing lots of people your brochures and screenshots and stuff. PCs with such battery life usually have external batteries, making them really heavy and unwieldy, especially single-handed carry.

3) There is very little need to compose long documents while at the conference - you may need to type some stuff up quickly (like entering contact and calendar stuff), but that generally is quite minimal. If a document need does come up, it's often better to do it in a private hotel room to draft it and review it (only an idiot tries to compose it right then and there to get it signed - these things normally have to be drawn up and agreed upon and other things).

4) The most common use will probably be fulfilled by the tablet's default gallery application - load up product photos, slides, etc as images and then swipe through them. Add a bit more for product brochures and stuff and that's it.

5) Said gallery app is often useful to automatically run a slide show when placed on the booth, similar to digital photo frames.

Gates is probably looking for a reason to not justify releasing Office for iOS (and Android). I mean, his criticisms apply to every tablet as well, including Surface. That, and a touch screen demands a different user interaction than a keyboard/mouse, so UIs have to change to accommodate both. E.g., touchscreens, resistive or capacitive or inductive are imprecise (resistives can use styluses, but even then the point's inaccurate) making small targets hard to hit. A mouse is a lot more precise. A touchscreen doesn't have "right click", and likewise, Fitt's law doesn't apply to touchscreens. In fact, hitting edges and corners is harder on a touchscreen.

Re:Yes (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648093)

and the place is littered with iPads and other tablets. How odd it is that, whatever your advice might be, businesses are buying tablets and they are being seen out in the field.

Now try to come up with a business justification for it.

Theyre littered all over because businesses tend to throw a bone to their employees, and because iPads are hip enough that everyone wants one. Youre going to have a really hard time convincing me that a laptop wouldnt have been superior in every concievable metric, though, from manageability to compatibility to productivity to price.

Uhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647581)

That's why we gave iOS/OSX users Pages... dumbass.

Personally (5, Funny)

themaddone (180841) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647587)

It's true.

--Sent from my iPad

Re:Personally (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647759)

It's false.

--Sent from my iPad

Not from what I've seen (2)

LordKronos (470910) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647595)

I hate apple products as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I can agree with this. I see my coworkers typing on their ipads all the time with a dock-like keyboard that attaches to act like a cover when not in use (not sure what it's called or if it's an official apple product or 3rd party).

Re:Not from what I've seen (2)

LordKronos (470910) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647637)

OK, did a quick look, and this is what I think they use:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/HA500VC/A/logitech-ultrathin-keyboard-cover-for-ipad?fnode=3e [apple.com]

Re:Not from what I've seen (1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647737)

I'll never understand that. You basically bought two cheap laptops for the price of a single iPad and keyboard dock.

Re:Not from what I've seen (3, Insightful)

berj (754323) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647787)

It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

With the ipad and keyboard dock I can use the iPad *without* the keyboard if I want to. I'm guessing neither of the cheap laptops I could have bought would work very well without the keyboard attached.

Re:Not from what I've seen (3, Insightful)

gstrickler (920733) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647983)

I'll never understand that. You basically bought two cheap laptops ....

Do that, and what you have are two cheap laptops that are slow, don't work right, and and are 2-5x the size and 3x-10x what an iPad/iPad Mini weighs. If you need a laptop, by all means buy a laptop. But if what you need is a tablet, buy a tablet.

Re:Not from what I've seen (1)

fermion (181285) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648099)

Here is the thing. The iPad is ok for writing. If I were in college, the iPad would be ok for much of what i did. A bluetooth keyboard can let me do many things. Even code the way I did in college.

But when MS talks about content creation, they are talking about combining content and presentation, something that MS Office does to excess. And in that the iPad is not so good. For instance, I would never try to make a Keynote presentation on it.

That said, in the same way that the Mac transformed how people created and consumed content, the iPad is doing the same. MS spent quite a bit of time avoiding the WIMP interface. It was at least 1990 before they fully embraced in and delivered a product that was just not a window/menu/pointer tacked on top of a command line, and before MS Office really delivered a solid product(outside of excel, which was tops from day one). They of course are going to do the same now. Admittedly with Metro they are much more gung ho that they were with MS Windows, and the Kin interface is certainly innovative. The question is can they do something different that is not just accepted because everyone needs MS Office.

Microsoft is fustrated tooo. (5, Insightful)

davydagger (2566757) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647603)

Microsoft is fustrated that still, no one gives a shit about windows 8, and no one wants windows rt, and they were all DOA.

As much as I despise apple products, no cult-of-crapple iPad users would ever think twice about anything else, and if they did, it would more likely be android.

valid. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647615)

i feel that he makes a valid point...there's a great deal of functionality lost when i don't have a mouse or keyboard attached to my tablet. i like to have a notepad nearby for roughing things out, too. and my printer is broken, so i use a typewriter for contracts/deeds/other arcane legal documents which i often feed into my facsimile machine.

Next... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647621)

"iPad users are frustrated that they can't type on them, or create documents with them, or wear them on their wrists, or on their glasses. With Windows 8, we're trying to provide all of these benefits on one device. Why buy separate devices to do all these different things when you could just have one."

Notes - Tap the + - Start typing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647623)

I'm guessing he's never seen an iPad.

but without giving up what they expect in a PC. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647635)

Like a start menu. oh wait.

so.... (1)

waddgodd (34934) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647641)

Since ipad users are missing Office, we can expect to see a return of Office for Mac(now iOS)?

Re:so.... (1)

gstrickler (920733) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647991)

MS office never left the Mac.

Keyboard is nice, but ... (2)

ZeroPly (881915) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647653)

... generally I don't lug it around.

I evaluated the Surface Pro last month. We got a keyboard with it which I put in my office cabinet. It's still sitting there. I have a choice at work of what tablet I want to use, since I'm the product evaluator for that category. Right now I have an iPad, several different Androids, the RT (yuk), and this Surface Pro.

The keyboard just isn't that big a deal to me. The one that comes with it is nice in that it magnetically latches, but in terms of actual typing it's slower than a $7 generic one from Micro Center.

The reason I carry the Surface Pro is because my Windows software will run on it. Plus, it's got a USB port. If I care that much I'll just steal a full keyboard off someone's desk and plug it into the tablet. I'm in a corporate environment, it's not like USB keyboards are hard to come by. Crap, I keep one in my car...

As if he uses it... (1)

justcauseisjustthat (1150803) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647659)

Please use the device before actually criticizing it. Reminds me of so many C-levels and VPs, they don't have a clue about what's going on, but they claim they do!!

Tablets are for consumption, not production (4, Insightful)

Dracos (107777) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647679)

What OS is installed doesn't change that. Surface users are frustrated that there are no apps for their devices.

Touch UIs suck, and the proof is all over the internet. Every time someone posts something like "I would [something], but I'm on my [phone|tablet|mobile]" it is a damning statement on how limited touch is compared to keyboard+mouse. Even common desktop tasks are a chore in touch.

I realized recently that maybe part of the reason why Apple resisted putting cut and paste into iOS for so long was because they couldn't figure out how to make it not suck. That's something Jobs would have obsessed over.

Can't you plug a keyboard into an iPad usb port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647691)

If not, it is a design flaw

Re:Can't you plug a keyboard into an iPad usb port (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647731)

If not, it is a design flaw

kb's can work through bluetooth.

but why do you think ipads would have regular usb host, when they can instead ask money from hardware developers?

"they can't type, they can't create documents" (3, Funny)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647697)

. . . a lot of folks I see using computers can't do that with a keyboard either . . .

We Already Tried This. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647703)

While Apple views the tablet and PC markets as two separate entities, Microsoft takes the opposing view.

They were called netbooks, and they died a quick death.

I agree, in princple (1)

tatman (1076111) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647715)

I have an android tablet, not a ipad. I feel my experience is similar. Yes I can create documents. However, it is difficult enough that usually end up shutting off my tablet and get out the laptop (yeah yeah I have old hardware).

The software to create and edit documents on the tablet just isn't mature enough to do the things I am used to. Web based editors act weird. Apps miss a feature I want or whatever.

So, from that perspective, I think Bill is more right than wrong.

Re:I agree, in princple (2)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647917)

The software to create and edit documents on the tablet just isn't mature enough to do the things I am used to. Web based editors act weird. Apps miss a feature I want or whatever.

You're right, but you're missing the point. What really makes using a PC so much better than a tablet for creating documents (or other real work that people have to do) is not the software, its the hardware: a nice big monitor, a real keyboard and a real mouse.

Tablets will never have that and so will always remain inferior for certain things.

Yep. (2)

painandgreed (692585) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647717)

So frustrated, that I have never bothered to even take the bluetooth keyboard I bought along with my iPad out of the box in the past two years.

Good In theory, but maybe not execution (1)

Apu de Beaumarchais (2023822) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647733)

I actually liked the idea of Windows 8 tablet with laptop like power. However due to battery life, cost and reading of hardware reliability issues with different Windows 8 tablets I wasn't confident in buying one. I was doing work one weekend at my parents house on my laptop and some of it I was doing via RDP connected to my desktop at home. I for some reason decided to test RDP access with my girlfriend's iPad and found the picture to be better and the responsiveness of the tablet superior to my aging laptop. In the end I ended up buying an iPad and a bluetooth keyboard case and it is working well for what I wanted a Windows 8 tablet for.

Admittedly such solutions don't work as well for non-technical people, but a lot of them don't need the heavy lifting of a desktop and could make due with a keyboard case and Google Apps or other alternatives if they really were frustrated. All this combined with the fact Windows 8 just doesn't make sense without a touch screen is why Microsoft's been having trouble selling Windows 8.

I don't get Microsoft's strategy here (5, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647745)

So according to Bill it boils down to MS Office (because you can simply get a keyboard for an iPad, just as you can for a Surface tablet).

The thing is however:

a) there's no native Office for Surface either (Office 2013 has no Metro-interface and isn't particularly suited for touch screens, even in touch-mode)
b) they are woking on a version of Office for iOS and Android
c) you can use Office 365 on whatever device that has a browser, which includes Surface, but also the iPad and all of the Android devices out there

How does that make the Surface any more attractive than the competition?

So start selling Office on the iPad (4, Insightful)

theurge14 (820596) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647749)

Microsoft is a software company, right?

Re:So start selling Office on the iPad (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43648011)

Or better yet, they could sell Windows RT for the iPad!

Lacks keyboard.. (4, Funny)

GrBear (63712) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647757)

Users are frustrated because it lacks a keyboard? You mean just like Surface? Oh, but you can buy one as an add-on you say? You mean just like Surface?

Wow.. I'm not sure who I'm more afraid of now.. Ballmer or Gates, both seem pretty out of touch with reality.

iPad + Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647763)

The Surface Pro keyboards suck. If you like a tablet with a keyboard, get the iPad with the Logitech Ultrathin iPad Keyboard.

Yes, finally the truth, thanks Bill (1)

s1d3track3D (1504503) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647767)

Once again you have your finger on the pulse of what we want and need!
I still cant figure out why you let my two favorite Microsoft features go, Bob and Clippy, please bring them back!

I know everyone is going to hate on Bill but... (5, Insightful)

Loco3KGT (141999) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647791)

I 100% agree with him. I can't type /at all/ on my iPad 2. Because I'm not the disciplined type that raises their fingers 100% before hitting the next key I find the iPad trippng up a lot. It also doesn't keep up when I'm typing quickly and I'm not patient enough to slow down to wait for it. I've even tried two third party keyboards and wasn't impressed with them (1 because it was small and travel sized, the other is that new fangled overlay .. I can't remember the name but I was a part of the kickstarter). Anyway, when it comes to typing anything of substance I always put down the iPad and go to my desktop computer.

In the end my iPad 2 has become the samething my X-Box has become, a bad, over-priced Netflix player.

Some folks create just fine on an iPad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647825)

Gates obviously hasn't seen my 13-year old daughter typing on it - She types as fast using the on-screen keyboard as she was on a laptop keyboard. I don't know how many wpm, but about as fast as I am, who's been typing for 30 years. As for me, I can't type worth a damn on it, but I haven't practiced much either. For document generation she does fine with Pages or note apps. We haven't gotten a spreadsheet program yet, though. Any suggestions?

Of course, Gates has only his own company to blame for the lack of MSOffice on the iPad.

SB

Chromebooks are better for most users (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647839)

I've given tablets to several non-technical family members and what I'm seeing is that here in year 2 they're all back to using laptops for most couch usage:
- email
- facebook
- shopping
- news

The tablets are only used for:
- countertop usage (pandora, recipies)
- kids toy

He's right... but who cares? (1)

sparkyradar (908639) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647867)

I have an iPad, and Bill's right - it's no fun to type on. So what, though - I got it as a super-nice eReader, and it excels at this... A Surface device with keyboard is a solution, looking for a problem where none exists (for me, anyway).

What's my son doing up there in his bedroom? (5, Funny)

ProfessorDoom (82503) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647873)

Dear Abby,

    Ever since we got my 13-year old an iPad, he's gone up to his bedroom after dinner each night and asked us to not disturb him while he "creates a document." Today I learned from Bill Gates that he can't actually create a document.

    Should I knock before entering his room to ask about this?

business travel (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647877)

Been trying a surface for a few months. Initially I hated it then gradually I understood the use case.

0.5 or 1 day business travel
+ presentations
+ note taking
+ email
+ being bored at the airport (except it sucks because almost all the apps require internet)

Bill..... (2)

tekrat (242117) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647895)

Trying so hard to still be relevant.

He's trying hard to sell Balmer's terrible mistakes. Bill, I hope your money still isn't tied up in Microsoft Stock, as in 10 years it's gonna be over for you.

I can create documents on my phone. It's called a bluetooth keyboard and you can get one on Amazon for as little as $20 for a Chinese apple knock-off. (So cheap, I keep one at home, and one at work, so I don't have to carry the keyboard, just my phone).

Bill, you're smoking crack and you've missed the boat again.

tuck yew Getes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647929)

Eye con two typ!

e femboi

And WinTablet users (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647931)

are frustrated they can't play, watch videos, access their dlna servers, nor their web 2.0 sites... So let's all go Android ! :-p

God's temple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647933)

God says...

moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill
the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after
his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his
kind: and it was so.

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle
after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after
his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Funny... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647947)

I can pair a bluetooth keyboard with my iPad, and have document creation apps, not to mention google docs. Considering I also have a 13.3" ultrabook, my ipad is usually just a general browsing/mail checker.

Marketing.. all marketing I say. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647949)

What is Bill going to say? MS is trying to market the Surface with Windows 8 before it dives off of the cliff. If I had a grand to blow on the Surface Pro with the extras (free would be better), I'm sure it'll be pretty sweet in the Windows world. The key here is that Android and iPad since have been on the market for years now and an app ecosystem to complement them. We don't _all_ need Microsoft software anymore. Some yes, but definitely not all. That is what people are finding out.
As for the Surface and the MS keyboard, it can be a good selling option, but there are 3rd party companies for Android/iPad that compete on the same level. MS is not innovating in hardware design; they are copying. They have their fair share of work to merge the desktop/laptop/tablet/phone. They are on the right track but can they do it without people hating the Win8 interface? I thought Apple would move faster on this (one OS / Interface), but that is still a ways away.

What's funny is I read reviews on Best Buy cheap laptops. A LOT of reviewers say they very much dislike Windows 8. And how do they go back to the "start" bar -- officially? Please give a legacy GUI for people who don't want the Win8 GUI, but have no choice.

Back to topic: MS Surface is a good idea for what they are doing with x86 after being a couple years too late. I'm not so excited about their delivery or price mark -- they have price overhead with the legacy x86 hardware. Gates is only advertising the tablet. Gates already threw under the bus the old Windows phone -- why? Since MS already has a new revolutionary replacement. Enjoy!

Ball merits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43647959)

Bill may be a lot of things, but stupid was not one them. Whatever Ballmer has, might be contagious.

Re:Ball merits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43648023)

iPad got me again .... Should be ballmeritis.

Why compete with the dying platform (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year and a half ago | (#43647971)

You have to question the wisdom of chasing the iPad which has dropped to 40% http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213 [idc.com] of the tablet market for 3 quarters (even after launching a smaller tablet) having been overtaken by Android, and growing less than half the overall market (Android is almost doubling growth).

As for competing with Apple because of an Office product even if it were true http://www.androidauthority.com/libreoffice-android-release-171002/ [androidauthority.com] Libreoffice is getting frustrating close to release.

You can tell Microsoft and Apple want the safe Duopoly back; Androids monster growth is not going to stop anytime soon, the iPad is a dying platform.

pages (1)

aahpandasrun (948239) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648009)

People are used to Office being bundled with their computers. Sure we can download Pages on an iPad. But I don't think enough people know enough about that.

Stop the knee-jerk responses and listen (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648019)

He's absolutely right. iPad users are frustrated at their inability to create documents without a hardware keyboard, and have been expressing their frustration by abandoning Apple and switching to Microsoft Surface tablets in droves*.

*For a sufficiently loose definition of "droves".

BillG: Pay NO ATTENTION to the last 10 years (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43648035)

Shorter Bill Gates: "Pay NO ATTENTION to Microsoft's decade-long Tablet PC sales disaster. People really want these things now, fer reals!"

There is a Pages app (1)

NotPeteMcCabe (833508) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648053)

The Pages app is, if I remember correctly, $10. It's not as feature-rich as Office but it's a usable word processor. It does have the new document feature. Also I seem to recall that airprint technology lets you print over wifi from your iPad. I've never tried it.

Re:There is a Pages app (1)

dingen (958134) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648091)

What's the point of printing out stuff on paper anyway? Especially when you're carrying around a tablet and can show people stuff at meetings etc. much easier than you can by having to go through your stack of papers (hoping you brought the right ones!).

Can't type on an iPad? Can't create documents? (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648071)

Gates continued to toe the party line insofar as he praised the benefits of Microsoft's tablets and Windows 8 while explaining that iPad users are frustrated because they have trouble typing and creating documents.

On what planet is this even approximately true? I can type and create documents on my iPhone (the only iOS device I own, but not the only one I've used.) Its, obviously, a rather cramped form factor for that, but the functionality is there. On an iPad, particularly with one of the many keyboards, this is even easier -- just as easy as it would be on a PC (or, presumably, a Windows-based tablet with external keyboard, like the Surface.)

They don't have Office there.

That's more of a problem for Microsoft than for the users.

keyboard cover (1)

mondovoja (2914901) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648079)

Thin keyboard covers, like those shipping with Surface, have been available for iPad for several years before Microsoft copied them.

So frustrated... (2)

kwiqsilver (585008) | about a year and a half ago | (#43648105)

We're so frustrated that we keep buying more and more iPads thinking it will fix the problem.

And of course, we would never do anything a stupid as use an iPad for what it's good for and a notebook or desktop for what they're good for. Nope. We assume every electronic device should do everything that our other electronic devices do. What I'm really frustrated about with the iPad is its inability to make toast or wash my clothes.

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