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European Carriers Complain To EU About Anti-Competitive Contracts With Apple

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the we-don'-wanna dept.

Advertising 146

whoever57 writes "Several European phone carriers have complained to the EU about the contracts that Apple imposes on them if they want to sell the iPhone. Because the contracts stipulate a minimum purchase, and the Carrier must compensate Apple if they fail to sell through that minimum, it has the effect of forcing the carrier to promote iPhones ahead of alternative phones. The European Commission is monitoring the situation. Apple claims that its 'contracts fully comply with local laws wherever we do business, including the EU.'"

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I'm suing Apple for banning my hosts file (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255209)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.



That was amazing. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]


He's done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone in the "do it right and set up a firewall" crowd ever could. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


Can I have some of what you're on? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40947587 [slashdot.org]


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]


oh come on.. this is hilarious. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]


As mentioned by another AC up there, the troll in question is actually a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]


It's actually a very clever parody of APK - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]


$20,000 to anyone providing proof of Alexander Peter Kowalski's death. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958289 [slashdot.org]


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]


And here I was thinking I was having a bad experience with a Dr. Bronner's bottle. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041081&cid=40952247 [slashdot.org]


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]


Does anyone know if OpenGL has been ported to Windows yet? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042199&cid=40956781 [slashdot.org]


golfclap - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40900827 [slashdot.org]


The Truth! wants to be Known! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897389 [slashdot.org]


DNS cube? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897493 [slashdot.org]


KUDOS valiant AC. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]


You made my day, thanks! - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]


You got that right. I think. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3044971&cid=40972239 [slashdot.org]


Michael Kristopeit, is that you? - http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3045075&cid=40972377 [slashdot.org]


ROFL! :) (Now the sick bastard will follow me again) - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41429251 [slashdot.org]


I miss Dr Bob. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432027 [slashdot.org]


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]


I am intrigued and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3164403&cid=41555345 [slashdot.org]


1. You philistine, that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]


What? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]


I don't know if it is poorly-thought-out, but it is demented because it is at the same time an APK parody. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832905 [slashdot.org]


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]


er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]


performance art - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847089 [slashdot.org]


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]


Seems more like an apk parody. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]


Oh, come on. Just stand back and look at it. It's almost art, in a Jackson Pollock sort of way. - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41868923 [slashdot.org]


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]


I can has summary? - http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]


I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41868133 [slashdot.org]


If [apk] made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41869409 [slashdot.org]


DAFUQ I just look at? - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869085 [slashdot.org]


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]


Do you know about the shocking connection between APK and arsenic? No? Well, your innocence is about to be destroyed. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3472971&cid=42939965 [slashdot.org]


Send bug reports to 903 east division street, syracuse, ny 13208 - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3483339&cid=42972783 [slashdot.org]


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43048291 [slashdot.org]


Best. Troll. Ever. - http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]


I like monkeys. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]


lul wut? - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3510265&cid=43057839 [slashdot.org]


I admire this guy's persistence. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]


Tabloid newspapers have speculated for years that APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. Too bad we didn't believe them sooner! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]


^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]


Don't hate the player, hate the game. - http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3526293&cid=43110679 [slashdot.org]


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]


The thirteenth link is broken. Please fix it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115361 [slashdot.org]


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]


YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]


I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]


Can I be in your quote list? - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]


Anyone else think that sounds like Ron Paul? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43242417 [slashdot.org]


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]


You make mikael christ the pet look like an huggable teddy bear - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43242373 [slashdot.org]


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]


you have a point - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]


I do admire that level of dedication. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]


Happy now - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569419&cid=43237239 [slashdot.org]


Professional. - http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255143 [slashdot.org]


Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

Disproof of all apk's statements:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040729&cid=40949719 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040697&cid=40949343 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040597&cid=40948659 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40947927 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040425&cid=40946755 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946043 [slashdot.org]
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* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts I practice.

Simple answer ... (0)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 years ago | (#43255543)

... don't sell any iPhone

No need to tie oneself to a contract with an impossible number of iPhone when there are plenty of other kinds of smartphone out there

Re:Simple answer ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255577)

Yep, because we know there's no such thing as "brand" and "brand loyalty", especially not in Apple's case. And it's not like Apple phones make up almost half of mobile market in EU (other almost-half is Android and what's left is torn in half a dozen tiny pieces by others).

Turning away half of potential customers - gee, what could go wrong?

Re:Simple answer ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255733)

other almost-half is Android

almost other half is Samsung


Re:Simple answer ... (1)

gordo3000 (785698) | about 2 years ago | (#43256737)

what are you talking about? In Europe Apple has about 20% of the market, usually less except around a release of a new iPhone. It's nowhere near 50%.

Re:Simple answer ... (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#43257303)


If I own a telco, and I have - say 100,000 customers, and I'm sure that I can sell 50,000 phones within a twelve month period - then I should decide how many of them I want. I want 20,000 Apple devices, and I want 20,000 Android devices, and I want a few hundreds of each of several other brands.

For Apple or Android, or anyone else to tell me that I MUST purchase X amount over what I have decided is WRONG!!!

Screw Apple and their minimum purchase. I just won't sell any. I'm going to push Android, and all the other competitors, and squash Apple within my own market.

Apple will probably come back with an offer more to my liking when they see me selling all those Androids.

Re:Simple answer ... (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about 2 years ago | (#43258391)

You have absolutely no experience what so ever in the retail world do you?

This is pretty much standard business practice for high profile retail targets, Apple didn't invent the practice they just joined in. Just because you're unaware of the fact that everyone does it, doesn't make it new. The cute part is that you think Samsung doesn't do the same with their Android phones.

Congratulations, you're a tool of propaganda rather than a human capable of thinking for themselves.

stomping (0)

Paolone (939023) | about 2 years ago | (#43255219)

The EU is sooo going to stomp on Apple's ass.

Re:stomping (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255279)

Why, the carriers have choices, they have not been forced to carry the iPhone, they could have said NO THANKS, however they chose to sign a contract for a product they wanted to sell on their network.

Re:stomping (2, Insightful)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 2 years ago | (#43255451)

Indeed, anticompetitive should not mean "as a carrier I cannot afford to keep this contract and sell other stuff without bias". It should mean "I am actively prevented to sell alternatives". Else whatever contract between supplier and vendor is anticompetitive by creating an unjust advantage (or, technically, even disadvantage) for the products in the contract.

If you want a textbook example of anticompetitive behavior look at Secure Boot instead. Not how it's defined but how it is implemented, as in "laptops shipping with no whatsoever instruction, not even on the vendor website, on how to get to a BIOS screen".

So, you agree then. (5, Insightful)

pablo_max (626328) | about 2 years ago | (#43255489)

So that you are saying is that Apple should be sued by the EU? Gotcha.
I mean after all, Apple actively prevents you from installing another main OS on its iProducts, does it not? Or, are you saying that this only applies to Windows and it is OK because it is Apple?

Re:So, you agree then. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255525)

one clue for you: marketshare

try to figure out the rest by yourself, genius...

Re:So, you agree then. (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 2 years ago | (#43255667)

indeed, buy one random laptop or smartphone, and the things between you and "doing what you want with your device" are, in this order: secure boot, android with locked bootloader and no root, iOS.

Re:So, you agree then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256503)


Re:So, you agree then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256977)

A company can still be anticompetitive even if they're not a monopoly, you tool.

Re:So, you agree then. (1, Troll)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 2 years ago | (#43255657)

I don't care whom EU sues. Given that EU actively prevents people with cows to sell milk ("oh you have no auth, find some phantom business whom we gave auth and resells it to you") and people with land to sell a fruit ("oh it may have grown without pesticides but it's not the CORRECT SIZE"). EU has nothing to do with free markets, I was talking about the definition of "anti-competitive". We are so deep in newspeak lately, huh?

Re:So, you agree then. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255993)

I live in Europe and buy vegetables from people with small lands roughly once in two weeks. Try again with different propaganda.

Re:So, you agree then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256521)

I moved from the EU less than six months ago and until that time could not sell fruit from my own trees for the reasons the op stipulated. So maybe he wasn't using propaganda, but was merely conflating local (country specific) was of handling EU directives with the actual directive itself.

Re:So, you agree then. (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 2 years ago | (#43257599)

Yep you can buy fruit, since the people complained about the law EU passed. But EU passed that law and it did it recently.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/world/europe/12iht-food.4.17771299.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]
Milk quotas still stand.
http://www.reformthecap.eu/issues/policy-instruments/milk-quota [reformthecap.eu]

Was it difficult to google before accusing people of spewing propaganda, fellow EU citizen?

Re:So, you agree then. (1)

theVarangian (1948970) | about 2 years ago | (#43255883)

So that you are saying is that Apple should be sued by the EU? Gotcha. I mean after all, Apple actively prevents you from installing another main OS on its iProducts, does it not?

I'm not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic here or if you really believe that. Apple does not prevent you from installing another OS on you iDevice any more than Google or Samsung will jovially give you technical help and throw developer time at you for free if you decide to install Ubuntu on your Galaxy S3. Even if they put clauses in their EULAs, (I could not find one in the docs that came with my iPhone) It's perfectly possible to install Android on an iPhone [gadgetsdna.com] if you are willing to put in the work.

Or, are you saying that this only applies to Windows and it is OK because it is Apple?

Apple should get it's ass kicked for anti competitive behaviour just like Microsoft did and so should Google and Samsung.

Re:So, you agree then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43258063)

You can install whatever you want on an iDevice, just don't expect Apple to make it easy for you.

EU would not go after Apple for that any more than they have against Microsoft (XBox 360, Zune family), Sony (PS3, PSP, Vita), or Whirlpool (my microwave).

Re:stomping (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255645)

And apparently Android phones make the majority of sales world wide, so Apple certainly does not have a monopoly.

The could also sell Window phones, lets face it they make them in the EU, or Blackberrys too as well as the Androids

so competition is not an issue.

I think the issue is they are complaining that someone is behaving like a carrier and treating them like how they treat their customers
which is unfair.

Re:stomping (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#43257439)

I disagree. The supplier telling me how many phones I must buy is anti-competitive. "You can't have 40,000 phones, Pal. You'll take 70,000, or nothing. Take it or leave it!" That is complete and utter bullshit. And, it's ANTI-competitive.

Re:stomping (1)

Gabest (852807) | about 2 years ago | (#43256455)

There is a competition between them, if one does not offer an iphone, what do you think it will happen to them?

Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (5, Insightful)

jaskelling (1927116) | about 2 years ago | (#43255249)

So...carriers...you signed a contract. It's something you can't get out of because it's something you NEED to have to succeed. But...the prices are exorbitant, you're being bent over and pounded from behind, and you feel you have no recourse, no matter how much you bitch and whine? Congratulations! Now you know how every single one of your customers feels on a daily basis. You're not going to get one iota of sympathy from me.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (0)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about 2 years ago | (#43255305)

Congratulations! Now you know how every single one of your customers feels on a daily basis.

Being bent over and pounded is not a service my carrier provides. I just give them AU$20 a month to make calls and use data.

If being bent over a barrel isn't a lifestyle choice for you, you should change your carrier.

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255371)

Here in the US we don't have a "non-barrel" option, though there is some flexibility in the "backside frequency" rate. But in our defense, our government does this to us all the time by bending over backwards to help big business do this to customers. I believe we even pay extra taxes to help buy the barrels.

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (2)

used2win32 (531824) | about 2 years ago | (#43255433)

Actually we do. My wife and I left a big carrier and went with a smaller one. 1500 minutes and a small data plan (I normally use WiFi) for $50 mo and no contract.

I bought used phones and now our bill is a fraction of what it was...

Is $50 better = yes. Could and should it be cheaper = yes.

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (1)

zidium (2550286) | about 2 years ago | (#43255951)

Are you serious?

We use My Simple Mobile [mysimplemobile.com] ...

  • Unlimited voice
  • Unlimited long-distance
  • Nationwide
  • Unlimited data
  • Android phone
  • T-Mobile network
  • $50/month!! NO CONTRACT!

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (1)

emj (15659) | about 2 years ago | (#43255959)

  • Unlimited data
  • Android phone

Are you sure? What kind of phone and what kind of unimited data?

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256183)

T-mobile has 4G and its unlimited data plans are usually 2GB cap, after which you get throttled down to 2G speeds until the next billing cycle.

Re: Now you know how your customers feel, carriers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256217)

I modded you informative and posting AC to comment. I looked through their web site and for the first time in a while got interested in upgrading. I've been on t-mobile for a long time and I've found it amazing that they don't really give a carp about loyal customers. Oh, new guys get all the bells, but to upgrade as an existing is a most unpleasant experience. I bought my phone 4+ years ago and really don't want to go on contract, but was willing if they gave me a deal. No deal, just pay more.

I'd loathed to buy a used phone from e-bay (if I can even find a SIII, what I want), but for their plan pricing, I see paying even full price a savings over the year. Thanks for the info. I am curious if Verizon or Sprint networks have similar piggy-back companies.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255375)

you're being bent over and pounded from behind

Now you know how every single one of your customers feels on a daily basis.

And they haven't even the common decency of giving a reach around

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (1)

Taantric (2587965) | about 2 years ago | (#43255397)

Surely this must fall under the same legal premise for the EU anti-monopoly actions against Microsoft in the late 90's? The position occupied by Apple in the smartphone market is comparable to the position held by MS in the operating system market back in 1999. Android might sell more as a whole segment but it is seriously fragmented with no peer to Apple other than Samsung. Good luck to the EU. I hope they do take some action on this.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (4, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | about 2 years ago | (#43255715)

You're right... 96% share, with your closest competitor having 3% share is *really* similar to 20% share, with one competitor having 35% share.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255735)

at that time ms controlled over 90% of the desktop market in operating systems and regularly used it's position to force makers to not sell anything different and regularly used it's position to lock out software it was trying to become dominant in.

apple does none of these things and is no where near as big. it's not quite a fair comparison I don't think.....

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (1)

sosume (680416) | about 2 years ago | (#43256153)


and regularly used it's position to lock out software it was trying to become dominant in.

- Apple abuses its position to remove competitive software from the app store

apple does none of these things and is no where near as big

- Apple was a while ago the most valued company ever. (based on stock price)

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256399)

Apple prevents non-webkit browsers accessing hardware accelaration. This slows down Firefox. Just one example.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (2)

davester666 (731373) | about 2 years ago | (#43255407)

We're the ones doing all the raping and pillaging, but Apple is getting all the profit from it because something known as "a product people want". We need immediate legislation so that we get to keep all the profit from the raping and the pillaging.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (2, Insightful)

Splab (574204) | about 2 years ago | (#43255557)

Did you read the part that said EU?

We have fierce competition on the mobile market in most of EU; if you are bound by a contract it's because you are paying off your phone bought on credit, one month cancellation term is the norm else.

In fact, the competition is so fierce in Denmark now, you get unlimited voice, SMS, MMS in almost all subscriptions, only thing varying these days are the data plans.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (1)

nospam007 (722110) | about 2 years ago | (#43255653)

"In fact, the competition is so fierce in Denmark now, you get unlimited voice, SMS, MMS in almost all subscriptions, only thing varying these days are the data plans."

Ditto here in Luxembourg. For under 50€, I have unlimited voice to all carriers and landlines, unlimited SMS and MMS and data. Being a small country, for an additional 5€ a month you can also get international calls and SMS etc to the countries around us.
That's with a contract where the iPhone came with, if you buy your own phone it's much cheaper.

Re:Now you know how your customers feel, carriers! (1)

skine (1524819) | about 2 years ago | (#43255723)

You can get out of a signed contract if that signed contract is illegal.

That's the point: they aren't. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256263)

When you sign up to your internet service, the ToS has to be agreeable to both sides. If the contract is "take it or leave it", then there isn't much of a meeting of minds and unfair terms can be struck because of this.

This is the carriers asking for the same protections as the populace gets.

"innovative", but not absolutely wrong.

Re:That's the point: they aren't. (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about 2 years ago | (#43256933)

I think Apple is being the innovative one here, innovatively anticompetitive ... and I agree with Apple, they are abiding by the letter of the law.

The question is do we want all major manufacturers with some decent pull (ie. Samsung) to start doing this as well ... I think we don't, allowing market incumbents to throw up extra barriers of entry through contracts only benefits the market incumbents. So lets update the laws to make what Apple is doing illegal going forward.

the irony... (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255261)

...of cellular carriers, the most despised, bullying, and customer-hating organisations - monopolies, often - on the face of the earth, are crying because someone bigger than them is calling the shots for a change. the shock alone must be causing them to palpitate. even better - its because of *unfair and one-sided contract terms*! I laughed so hard I swear my spleen burst.

Re:the irony... (2)

Fuzzy Viking (1140767) | about 2 years ago | (#43255385)

...of cellular carriers, the most despised, bullying, and customer-hating organisations - monopolies, often - on the face of the earth, are crying because someone bigger than them is calling the shots for a change. the shock alone must be causing them to palpitate. even better - its because of *unfair and one-sided contract terms*! I laughed so hard I swear my spleen burst.

Actually here in Europe the carriers have something you in the US seem to lack. We call it competition. Personally I am very happy with my carrier. No monthly fee for the basic subscription and a decently priced data plan. The Apple contracts are in sharp contrast with the rest...one of many reasons why I would never contemplate buying an iPhone.

Re:the irony... (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about 2 years ago | (#43256953)

Also one of the most heavily regulated to enforce competition, especially in the EU.

They know anticompetitive behaviour when they see it.

Easy way to fix this problem (5, Insightful)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 2 years ago | (#43255265)

You know what the easiest way is to solve this problem? Completely separate the business of providing cell/wireless service from the business of providing the actual phones. If you want an iPhone, you buy it from Apple at whatever they are actually charging (none of this "subsidized" multi-year contract BS). Then you buy a service package for whatever carrier you want. Either month-to-month or long-term.

Bundling the phone and service together has been horrible for consumers (we get locked-down devices loaded with crapware and stuck with terrible contracts) and now even the carriers don't like it? Enough.

Belgium does that (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255285)

All phones are unlocked, and you can switch providers and keep the number. You can get subsidized phones, but then again you can just buy a phone from anyone on credit anyway and buy a service from any of the telcos.

But really who needs Apple? There just isn't a killer app for iPhone now that isn't available on Android, and usually better on Android.

So why not just skip the iPhones altogether at this point, if a user wants it, they can buy it unlocked mail order from one of the countries that sells them unlocked. There's just no need to waste time with Apple now.

Re:Belgium does that (4, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 2 years ago | (#43255297)

But really who needs Apple? There just isn't a killer app for iPhone now that isn't available on Android, and usually better on Android.

People want the brand. It's like those Beats headphones: crazy expensive, subpar sound, "all my friends have those so I gotta have 'em too".

Beats was a big loss maker (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255343)

As I remember that, HTC bought Beats audio for some silly money (like $300 million or something), made a huge loss, sold it back to Beats founders (Dr Dre et al). at a huge loss and the HTC exec whose deal it was got fired.

I think if they want the Apple brand, good for them, they can buy it unlocked from Belgium. And if they're not willing to buy it unlocked, then they don't really want the brand that much.

I think the telcos can safely walk away from Apple at this point.

Re:Beats was a big loss maker (2)

LamboAlpha (840950) | about 2 years ago | (#43256683)

HTC bought a 50.1% share (controlling interest in the company) for 309 million dollars, then sold back 25% for 150 million dollars. HTC only lost ~4.5 million dollars plus the cost of the acquisition. Not a great business move, but they could have done far worse. However, they still have some control of Beats Electronics because of it (the 25% in stock).
http://www.businessinsider.com/htc-just-sold-back-half-of-its-holdings-in-beats-electronics-2012-7 [businessinsider.com]

Re:Belgium does that (5, Interesting)

walkerreuben (2837841) | about 2 years ago | (#43255367)

As a computer nerd who owns an iPhone 5 and a Galaxy S3, I can tell you that no matter what I do with my Galaxy, my iPhone is still easier to use, more simple to navigate, and is always more stable. It does everything I need it to. The Galaxy. That's my fiddle phone. I can do anything I want with that phone, and it rarely complains. I can install different operating systems, I'm pretty sure I could dual boot if I wanted to. But so far every single thing I've done on my Galaxy that I couldn't do on my iPhone has been things only a nerd or geek would want to do. (Apart from use a proper Google Reader app, but that's no longer a problem with what's happening to it.) So in the end of my 6 month review of the two phones, I've come to the conclusion (I came to it ages ago actually) that while the Galaxy is the superior phone in nearly every way, the iPhone is the phone that's going to let the average customer do everything they need to do with hardly any worries. (It also feels stronger.) The average non-tech person who gets a smartphone doesn't want to dual boot it, they just want to use it. That's why Apple is so successful. (And when some damn saleperson talked my grandmother into getting a cheap android phone, I felt like taking it to the shop and stuffing it up ....... never mind. That was made worse by most of her children using iPhones and iPads.)

Re:Belgium does that (1)

Fuzzy Viking (1140767) | about 2 years ago | (#43255411)

What I would miss the most if I were to leave my Desire Z behind would be the keyboard. My phone is not the newest or fastest around, but I love that keyboard, and my wife is jealous of the cam quality, which is better than hers on her much newer Sony XPeria Go. Oh. And xmbc. Need that.

Ironically (2, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43255455)

my iPhone has been things only a nerd or geek would want to do

Its kind of sad your trying to troll Android vs Apple based on subjective comments [and personal attacks]...you hit all the check boxes, but you ignore the fact that this article is about Carriers standing up to Apple, something they are doing 6 years after launch because, well their dependence on Apple is not once it once was, simply because other companies are providing smartphones that outsell Apples several times, because customers are choosing them over Apple.

Re:Ironically (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255743)

it's called standing up to apple when you run and cry to a regulator you are probably bribing to make things better rather than just not selling the phone anymore?

Re:Ironically (1)

gordo3000 (785698) | about 2 years ago | (#43256769)

what phone model outsells the iPhone? I don't think the galaxy s3 does. It's the best single selling cell Phone I think, though not the biggest company or biggest operating system in europe.

Re:Ironically (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43258105)

How is this insightful? The only models that manage to limper past iPhones in sale numbers have fractionally better sales, none are close to "several times" if you are thinking integers.

Fandroid in "complete disregard of reality" mode I see... you argue on the level of someone who sees someone making 50 million and calling them a millionaire, and seeing someone making 49 million and calling them dirt poor. Because the other guy made a pass at your sister or some other weird justification.

Re:Belgium does that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255535)

My mother, who barely understands how to use Windows, loves her GS3. She is the type of person for whom downloading email attachments represents the largest struggle she will encounter in a day. I've told her that her iPad is essentially a larger version of what an iPhone is, but somehow, that doesn't seem to bother her... She saw that my GS3 was "nice" (full disclosure: I own a GS3 and an iPod touch) and wanted one, too. I can tell you that she certainly doesn't care about dual-booting, only that it can "run her apps" and "do everything she wants."

I think your perception of the "average non-tech person"'s needs and wants diverges from the reality of the average non-tech person's needs and wants. Just :using it" has worked out just fine for her...

Re: Belgium does that (2)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 2 years ago | (#43255811)

I don't know. I can see plenty of non-nerds wanting to able to add extra storage without having to buy a new device, have the ability to block unwanted calls, mark texts from certain numbers as spam or use Swype to name but 4.

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255303)

Yes, I've been doing this for the last 10 years:
    - I buy the phone off contract, and can get any phone I like.
    - I choose how long to keep the phone for. E.g. in the latest case my wife was happy to have my old smart phone (HTC Desire), when I got a Nexus 4 direct from Goggle, a lot cheaper than you can get it in the UK from a carrier ...
    - No crap ware on either phone is a handy bonus.

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255345)

In my country (Finland) it's perfectly possible to do what you advocate, i.e. buy a phone separately and a subscription separately. However, idiots (i.e. most consumers) somehow think they save money by getting a phone + 2 year subscription instead of buying them separately. The phone and the SIM are not locked but since the subscription has a relatively high monthly fixed minimum fee, it's not cost-efficient to get an additional subscription from a different operator and put that SIM into the phone instead. And you would of course get a different number in that case. This does, however, benefit people like me a lot since I can buy a decent smart phone very cheaply second hand and then get any subscription I like. It's ridiculous how some people simply must have the latest model all the time and sell their 3-4 month old phones for less than half the price of a new one. Possibly because that phone came with the subscription and they thus perceive it as "almost free" and then only consider paying a lot for their new phone as actually buying a phone. Personally, I try to avoid getting a new phone as long as possible - not because of costs but because I think that getting used to a new phone is a lot of trouble for very little benefit (I haven't seen any new killer features emerge in recent years).

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (1)

torako (532270) | about 2 years ago | (#43255431)

For me it's not really about killer features, it's about app support (and OS updates to some degree). I'm still very happy with my iPhone 4 (bought in 2010 when it was released), however, I have noticed that newer apps don't feel as snappy as they used to, due to being optimized to run on newer models. It's not quite bad enough to warrant a new phone yet, but it might get there, especially when OS update support is dropped at some point in the future (Thankfully the resell value of iPhones is pretty great).

Phones used to be more or less single-use appliances that only had to be replaced if they broke, but now that what makes them compelling is apps they are subject to the same update cycles that other computer hardware is (or used to be, the update pressure for notebooks and desktops isn't as big as it used to be).

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (5, Informative)

Fuzzy Viking (1140767) | about 2 years ago | (#43255395)

Which is why I always buy phones without carrier lock-in. Which is an option here in Norway :)

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255983)

It's an option everywhere, even here in the states. But people balk at a $400 price tag, even though you'll save twice that much over the course of a contract if you actually do the math. I did when I bought my Galaxy Nexus, and plan to buy unlocked phones from here on out.

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255579)

I brought phone directly from Samsung store and have no monthly fees. I pay for all calls and texts in the end of the month. Individual calls and texts would be cheaper if I would be on monthly plan, but I do not call enough to make it pay off.

My data (internet) connection is also paid at the end of the month and upper cap for what I will ever pay is 15 euros.

I'm ok with my program. If I ever decide to change the program, I can keep the cell phone number. You know, EU regulations said so. Do not assume that carriers are hated everywhere just because there is not competition among them in your area.

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (1)

houghi (78078) | about 2 years ago | (#43255591)

Apple does not sell you the phones if you don't sign the contract,

Many companies wanted to start selling the iPhone, but were not allowed because they did not have any contract.

OTOH you can easily buy unlocked phones with or without contract.
iPhone 5 64GB [phonehouse.be] for 900EUR or 919 at the apple store. The difference is that it can not be used on CDMA networks or on LTE networks in _other_ countries.
They even tell you when non-locked is the best option here (in Dutch) [apple.com]

And you can buy ANY phone unlocked without contract, You just go into the store and buy the phone. Put in any sim card that fits from any country and you are done.

Re:Easy way to fix this problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255703)

Thats how it work in the third world country where i live. You first world guys are crazy for accepting contracts. Where is the freedom and capitalizm :)

strange tactic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255267)

There is no way Apple can check how many phones a carrier has sold.
Why not make the carriers buy a minimum amount of phones?

Re:strange tactic (0)

NoZart (961808) | about 2 years ago | (#43255409)

I never owned an iPhone, but don't iphones register an itunes account with apple? By keeping a database on IMEI numbers of the devices that are sold over a carrier, i would think it to be quite easy to keep track of that?

Or just stop buying them (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255309)

Because if carriers stopped buying and selling apple products they would eventually fix their contract problem. Sign a contract with other carriers stating that for a year there would be no selling of i-products. Simple as that.

Re:Or just stop buying them (2)

NoZart (961808) | about 2 years ago | (#43255415)

IANAL, but wouldn't that be illegal in EU?

In some ways, yes. (3, Interesting)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about 2 years ago | (#43255853)

By becoming a cartel, it would be illegal. However, if one large provider would publicly announce it would stop doing business with apple and all the others would follow, there isn't much apple could do. If this was staged by the EU telcos and kept secret, apple would have the burden of proof. I think that a lot of EU telephone market movements are done this way, but I have no way of proving it, so it's just an expression of my opinion.

Re:In some ways, yes. (1)

Buzer (809214) | about 2 years ago | (#43256533)

It could still fall under the cartel or similar laws. Recently in Finland there was a case where dairy producer (Valio) had originally cut their milk price to drive another company out (Arla). The Finnish Competition and Consumer Authority was not happy when they found out and more or less forced Valio to up their prices. Valio publicly announced they were going to increase their wholesale prices by 30%. FCCA was angry again, claiming that kind of announcement could be considered to be price signaling and it's not a good thing. They haven't filed any claims to courts yet tho.

Re:In some ways, yes. (1)

phayes (202222) | about 2 years ago | (#43256787)

The European telecom market is much too fragmented to be called a single market, it's merely an assembly of national markets. Conditions in one national market have very little to do with those in other markets as the actors are generally very different from country to country.

Now as for your contention that all that needs to happen is for one important actor in one country to renounce their contract with Apple & for the rest of the operators to domino after, it's bull. Here in France, Freemobile.fr entered the market a little over a year ago with no Apple contract (& indeed no subsidized phones at all). One year later they have already taken over 6.4% of the french market.

The other 3 French operators have already tried to form anti-competitive cartels a few years ago. They were caught & fined & ever since they have been under serious scrutiny. Were they to attempt doing so again, the consequences would be severe.

Ah yes, the pattern repeats (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255311)

Gota bailout Cyprus and need some cash... Microsoft paid for Greece so it's about time Apple paid up too. I wonder what country Google will eventually support?

Your American :) (4, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 2 years ago | (#43255471)

Its always a little embarrassing to show how little are know about other parts of the world...here is a wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union [wikipedia.org] from the article "The economy of the European Union generates a GDP of over €12.894 trillion (US$16.566 trillion in 2012)[1] according to Eurostat, making it the largest economy in the world."...just in case you missed it "*LARGEST* economy in the world."

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255483)

Seems pretty weak once you consider how many members there are

Re:Your American :) (1, Insightful)

unapersson (38207) | about 2 years ago | (#43255613)

The US has more members though doesn't it?

Re:Your American :) (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255939)

No, it doesn't. The country/state relationship in America is in no way similar to the country/member relationship in the EU. Considering the GDP of the EU is less than a trillion higher and the population is nearly 200 million people greater than the US (approx. 60% greater), I'm not sure the original poster's point is braggable in any case.

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256955)

It isn't. An apples to apples comparison would be all of the North American continent to all of the European continent. What tuppe666 stated is similar in spirit to 'American exceptionalism'. It relies more on skewing numbers and framing the debate than any type of reason. In this case, comparing an entire trade bloc that has repeatedly chosen to exclude subpar states to a single country that is all inclusive within its borders. Even then, to make the point stand takes some ignoring of inconvenient facts such as GDP measuring standards (somewhat relevant [smbc-comics.com] )and population numbers.

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255521)

You're Spelling ;)

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255619)

You're capitalization ;) You're WINNER !!

Re:Your American :) (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256185)

It's fun how people selectively believe the EU is a country when it suits them, and a loose collation of countries when it doesn't.

Even if you do pretend the EU is a country, the GDP is impressive, but the GDP per capita is not.

Re:Your American :) (3, Interesting)

phayes (202222) | about 2 years ago | (#43256831)

It's funny how when it serves EU pride, like "We have the largest economy in the world", Europeans sum up the GDP, yet when it doesn't, like total amount of CO2 pumped into the atmosphere, that never happens...

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43258023)

It is actually not a pride for us europeans that every day we are looking more like USA, with the government being run by financial lobbies and the poverty line rising every year in every country for the sake of profits. And we are getting short of countries to escape to.

Re:Your American :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43258361)

It's funny how when it serves EU pride, like "We have the largest economy in the world", Europeans sum up the GDP, yet when it doesn't, like total amount of CO2 pumped into the atmosphere, that never happens...

Yes, let's talk about the total amount of CO2 pumped into the atmosphere: while US has a smaller economy than Europe it was still responsible for more than 16% of the global CO2 emissions while Europe still bad "only" is responsible for 11% of global CO2 emissions. US produces more (CO2) than Europe & Japan put together.

USA bailed out California (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256073)

Well Euro zone is profitable, it sells far more goods and services than it buys in from abroad, and Cyprus is a tiny part of that zone.

On the other hand, USA runs a huge trade deficit, and California is one of the biggest economic parts of the USA and is essentially bankrupt without its Federal bailout.


So Apple shouldn't pay up, rather they should not break EU law, and pay their taxes back into the USA which needs them. As for Microsoft, they are not victims here, they knew what they were doing and did it anyway.

this should be quick to resolve (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255459)

this is how intel got done in with their contract bulk discounts

Apple is not a monopoly (1, Redundant)

Pecisk (688001) | about 2 years ago | (#43255527)

Carriers aren't forced to offer Apple. In fact, in Europe you aren't really obliged to do anything about Apple - you can succeed (as mobile provider) other ways. Of course, it is much harded than hoping all kool-aid drinking Apple fanboi masses come to you and you only (if serously, Apple is playing with fire here - my pick huge number of their sales in Europe comes from carriers, because no hipster or "cool kid" can afford retail price of Apple).

So, unless Apple has near 90% monopoly in smartphone market (hint: it doesn't, especially in Europe), those carriers will have to taste their own medicine - after all, Apple imposes similar tactics as mobile providers/ISP themselves imposes to us - with huge fees for early termination, etc.

Re:Apple is not a monopoly (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255561)

OEMs weren't forced to offer Microsoft. In fact, in US you weren't really obliged to do anything about Microsoft - you could succeed (as OEM) other ways. Of course, it is much harder than hoping all MS using enterprise masses come to you and you only etc. etc. etc.

You don't need to be a monopoly to engage in anti-competetive practices. With 40-50% of mobile market, Apple certainly has enough mass to swing around, and what they're doing here is not much different from what MS did.

Hint: it's not about "hoping all fanbois come to you", it's about knowing that none of them will come to you if you don't have iPhone and your neighbor provider does.

Re:Apple is not a monopoly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43258177)

I am sure Apple never demanded that telcos pay them for offering non-Apple phones the way Microsoft demanded OEMs pay for a Microsoft license for every computer no matter what OS it was sold with. Apple's "demands" of the telcos just broke the common absurdity where the telcos "telcofied" phone handsets making it harder to switch operator than it otherwise could be. Maybe you work for the telcos and thus enjoy the re-turning of the tables or something...

Re:Apple is not a monopoly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43256993)

So, unless Apple has near 90% monopoly in smartphone market

Look, you obviously don't understand competition law (in the US or EU) so why bother commenting? 20-30% market share can be sufficient to give you enough market clout to damage competition, there is no fixed minimum market share for competition law to apply.

Sounds a bit like 90's era Microsoft ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#43255749)

The situation isn't identical, but it sounds awfully similar to, the situation faced by OEMs in the 1990s. In those days, OEMs needed to preload Windows on a certain percentage of machines so Microsoft took advantage of that to edge out the competition. In these days, carriers need to offer iPhones to a certain percentage of customers so Apple is taking advantage of that to edge out the competition. The magnitude of the problem is somewhat different because the marketplace is still very competitive, but it appears as though there is a great deal of coercion in both cases.

Cry baby EU telcos (2)

stevez67 (2374822) | about 2 years ago | (#43255965)

It's called business ... business operates on contracts... just because you're lousy at negotiating contracts doesn't mean one of your suppliers is anti-competitive unless the contract stipulates you can't sell other manufacturer's phones. Man-up and learn how to do business and stop relying on your "bought-and-paid-for" regulatory agencies to boost your bottom line.

Re:Cry baby EU telcos (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#43256149)

unless the contract stipulates you can't sell other manufacturer's phones.

Isn't that the essence of the very problem here? If Apple's contract state you must sell X amount of Apple phones, then isn't that an implicite stipulation that you can not sell phones from other manufacturers unless you can meet X?

Re:Cry baby EU telcos (2)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 2 years ago | (#43256713)

Isn't that the essence of the very problem here? If Apple's contract state you must sell X amount of Apple phones, then isn't that an implicite stipulation that you can not sell phones from other manufacturers unless you can meet X?

And if the other manufacturer offers spiffs to your store employees for selling their phone, doesn't that mean they cannot sell iPhones if they want their cash from Samsung?

Re:Cry baby EU telcos (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about 2 years ago | (#43256989)

Two wrongs make a right?

Compensation (1)

Bogtha (906264) | about 2 years ago | (#43256203)

While Apple's terms are different from carrier to carrier, a major complaint from the European carriers is that Apple forces them to sell a certain amount of iPhones over a determined amount of time. If the carrier does not meet this quota, then they must pay Apple for the unsold devices.

The "compensate Apple" referred to in the summary appears to simply be that they need to pay for the devices they ordered even if they can't re-sell them to consumers. I know that the EU has strong protections for consumers being able to send goods back, so I would imagine they've got a case to be heard here.

However I have to wonder what the motivation is behind this. It's not like iPhones are sitting on shelves unsold and I don't see how a minimum order quantity is in any way unfair. The carrier knows that they don't have to push the iPhone on consumers and they'll sell their stock regardless. Is this a bargaining chip for other things, or do these factors have an effect on something in the pipeline?

Just Like... (1)

Luthair (847766) | about 2 years ago | (#43256941)

they followed EU warranty laws?
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