Apple To Release List of Companies That Build Its Products Around the World 164
mathfeel writes "Indulge me in some post hoc reasoning here: After last week's episode of This American Life 'Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory,' a very interesting show, Apple announced that 'For the first time, Apple has released a list of companies that build its products around the world. In another first, the company also announced that it will allow an independent third party to check on working conditions at those factories, and to make its findings public.'
But before you celebrate Apple's gesture (or complain about the potential increase in electronic price): 'It doesn't appear that Apple's partnership with the FLA will increase transparency in this regard either. The FLA will audit 5% of the factories that make Apple products, but like Apple, it will not name which ones it checks or where it finds violations.'"
Then what? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no give and take where Capitalism and socialism melded together to form a better world for us all.
Instead, it is all about the money and not about those that get trampled on in that endeavor.
So, if you want to placate the masses, you offer empty gestures and convoluted solutions to problems that will never go away in a Capitalistic society.
Dont even think about "voting with your wallet", as there is no competition anymore. Patenting everything from taking a shit to clicking a button took care of that.
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
The world may be royally screwed up; as individuals, we may not have a whole lot of power to do anything about the Way Things Are (tm), but that shouldn't stop us from striving. If nothing else, there is intrinsic value in the attempt. And who knows - enough individuals exerting pressure may, if not radically change the nature of man and the world, at least mitigate the damage of some of the worst that we do.
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Perhaps public pressure will do it, but then again public pressure over 2 years evolved into this retort by Apple.
Perhaps "voting with your wallet" will do it, but then again it will take a long time, an expensive effort, and people caring to make it happen.
Perhaps voting in people that will take these issues seriously will be the ticket, but then again... read above.
So yes, change can happen, but in
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps "voting with your wallet" will do it, but then again it will take a long time, an expensive effort, and people caring to make it happen.
Unfortunately, nobody cares enough. Did people even reduce their purchases of new electronics when they learned about the conflict minerals situation, or did they forget about the war the minute they saw a new cell phone on the market? Did people stop buying sneakers when they found out that children were being forced to work to produce the shoes? People in America simply do not care about the troubles of other countries, as long as they can continue to live comfortable high-tech lives.
If people were willing to do something like this, we could affect change:
http://library.thinkquest.org/26504/ [thinkquest.org]
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Well, while it's quite probable that very, very few people actually took conscious action based on their knowledge, that knowledge is the sort of thing that impacts sales.
Advertisers and marketing firms are very aware of the importance of perception and image. People are rarely completely consciously aware of all the factors that play into a buying decision, but if it's in their mind that oil company X spilled oil and never cleaned it up, they're reasonably likely to drive on by that company's gas station
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It conveys the sentiment. Unthinking masses of people who only want to be trendy and follow the herd. Sheeple.
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
It conveys the sentiment. Unthinking masses of people who only want to be trendy and follow the herd. Sheeple.
Problem is, "unthinking" also applies to the one using the Apple/sheeple meme. It's just a knee-jerk response that doesn't add anything to the conversation. It's basically a smug way of stating one's own (perceived) superiority while conveniently ignoring the wider problem - the fact that this is a wider issue that touches most all tech-related companies we do business with, not just Apple.
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I think a big part of the problem is that people just don't know about this stuff. I knew about Apple's factory conditions but not the blood minerals thing, and I have been reading Slashdot for over a decade. There is just too much going on, too many issues to worry about to remember them all. I do care and try to buy ethically when I can (Apple and Sony are on the banned list) it isn't easy.
People do actually like ethically produced products, as can be seen by the popularity of fair trade and free range go
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And the simple way of populating the site:
1) Put everything on it ...
Re:Then what? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's immature and a sweeping generalisation, but you know that.
In the same way that not all Linux users are unwashed, friendless nerds living off hot pockets, rent-free in their parents' basements, not all Apple users are "sheeple".
To use it as your primary argument just smacks of immaturity and a lack of a real argument.
I really don't mind debating the pros and cons of Apple, and wider technology stories as a whole, but I've got to have something to go on. If you're just going to stand there and tell me I have silly hair then I'm just going to find an adult to talk to instead.
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I didn't say all apple users were sheeple now, did I? I'd argue that most everyone in line at the store on release day are in fact nothing more than sheep.
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Erm, how about those that queue on a day when nothing new is released but just because it's a new Apple store that's opening [youtube.com]?
Sheep queue or cluster together because they are about to get something, like food, for example. The above behaviour is more akin to deranged magpies attracted by something shiny and somewhat insulting to sheep.
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And they're not really all that different than all the fandroids who click "buy" the very minute the latest (for that week) Android phone goes on sale online. The only real difference is one group leaves their house to buy it, and thereby gets noticed, and the other group doesn't.
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No argument here.
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No, it does not.
But not recognising that Apple users are pretty much unique in the tech gadget world for queuing outside stores for a new piece of electronic jewelry, and that therefore the OP was making a valid point, does make you a fanboi.
And let me correct you on one thing - the term "credibility" is not a fixed attribute, it is based solely on opinion - therefore something that may seem credible to me may not seem credible to you. And whilst we could argue our difference of opinions ad infinitum, it is
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You say:
Finally, you also suffer from two dimensional blinkered thinking if you believe that someone with whom you do not share the same opinion automatically becomes your enemy. Who was it who said "I may not agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it"?
and your sig says:
My right to Free Silence countermands your right to Free Speech when I don't care about your fucking opinion.
Which is somewhat contradictory. Your entire comment flies in the face of the former statement at any rate.
Either way, you're accusing me of being hypocritical for pointing out that his lack of maturity and generalisation hurts his argument's credibility - that part of the debate is not in doubt. Immaturity and generalisations always hurt your argument, regardless of topic, so attempts to justify his position are really not relevant.
You then tried to change the argument (and by ext
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Yes there is, thankfully. As a rule of thumb it can be found in anything that extreme libertarians grumble about. If you look around this site you may find one or two. Try here [slashdot.org] for starters.
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Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. We require all of our suppliers to certify in writing that they use conflict few materials. But honestly there is no way for them to be sure. Until someone invents a way to chemically trace minerals from the source mine, it’s a very difficult problem.
Apple can ask their suppliers to use conflict free minerals (which they do). But technically Steve is correct; To guarantee that the minerals were 100% conflict free (indirectly through suppliers' suppliers) is an impossible task that even Dell acknowledged [dell.com].
The mining of these minerals takes place long before a final product is assembled, making it difficult, if not impossible, to trace the minerals' origins. In addition, many of the minerals are smelted together with recycled metals, and at that point it is virtually impossible to trace the minerals to their source.
The problem is hard enough for conflict free diamonds and each of those gems can be uniquely identified and separated. How do you identify the source of every single particle in a product that is smelted with other materials?
Ghandi, Apple Spokesman (Score:3)
a few other things that are impossible:
taking egghead computer theories and making them into products for children
ripping out the guts of BSD and putting it into a consumer phone
working out deals with the music industry, a notoriously insular, backwards, conservative, static industry, to distribute its product over a whole new channel and create a new type of industry.
making a 8 inch 'pad' that works like a computer and people will buy
bringing back a nearly bankrupt, listing disaster of a corporation and tu
Re:Ghandi, Apple Spokesman (Score:4, Insightful)
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Was there some reason that Apple had to use conflict minerals in the first place? Oh, right, otherwise iProducts would be too big and ugly, or worse yet, Apple would have been forced to do the research that other people did on alternatives.
What? Apple like many other companies probably did not source their materials to the original source. They simply were not required to or may not known. As they identified, it's very hard to tell. They can only control so many levels of manufacturing. You treat it as if Apple and Dell and others made it a choice to get negative PR from using conflict materials. Where they can control it, they won't use such materials but realistically they can't guarantee 100%.
As a side note, do you know where every si
its not impossible (Score:2)
its just highly improbable.
and Apple gets the shit dumped all over it, because they are the ones who put Ghandi in their advertising.
many people said it would be impossible for India to become a democracy and throw out the British. he did it. and Apple used his image to sell their products --- but more than that, to sell the idea that thinking and creativity are penultimate. Einstein's image they also have used - and he would say similar things. it is only impossible if you accept what exists currently as i
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ask the people you bought it from (Score:2)
and then, have them ask the people who they bought if from
and then, they ask the people that they bought it from.
---
what if someone lies?
ahh, well, you get a world wide system of tracking going. its not impossible. its done with fruit. its done with alot of stuff.
think about it. microsoft, apple, the MPAA, the RIAA, wal-mart, the NSA, the TSA, etc, are trying to 'tag' everything in existence to track where it goes, when it went there, etc.
Wal-mart has extensive tracking of product after a certain point - fr
Re:ask the people you bought it from (Score:4, Insightful)
and then, have them ask the people who they bought if from
and then, they ask the people that they bought it from.
The first flaw in your scenario is that it ignores recycling and assumes perfect knowledge. While suppliers may know generally where they get original source material, recyclers have no idea where the original source of their material. At best they know the country of the supply of recycled goods, say the US. They cannot know that every single component in a ton of recycled materials did not come from a conflict source. Some of these conflicts have lasted almost 20 years. Looking at a stack of monitors that came from the US, can you tell which models and companies for the last 20 years have used conflict materials? No one in the world can tell you. Yet you say this is all possible.
what if someone lies?
ahh, well, you get a world wide system of tracking going. its not impossible. its done with fruit. its done with alot of stuff.
Tagging a shipment of fruit is vastly easier than tagging atoms. In a kg of gold (which is one of conflict minerals), there are 3.022E24 molecules of gold. How in the world do you tag that many molecules? That's the crux of the problem. You cannot know the original source of every gold atom as gold is recycled so often.
For the sake of argument we ignore recycling. You expect Apple to personally audit thousands of suppliers? How often? Unless you audit every one of them 24x7 for the rest of their contract, you cannot be sure that they used non-conflict materials each and every time.
I've asked you repeatedly for a technical way to do this. You've responded with nothing but unrealistic and impossible scenarios not based in reality.
Re:Then what? (Score:4, Informative)
How about not using tantalum?
That isn't what was asked. Jobs was asked whether they use conflict minerals and he answered truthfully that is impossible to guarantee 100% that they don't as they can only really control a few levels of manufacturing. Your solution to replace tantalum which only addresses one of the many minerals that are in question. That doesn't really solve the whole problem. Also, since the main source of tantalum [wikipedia.org] is Australia which isn't a conflict region, all that really does is take away a legitimate source.
As for Steve Jobs' statement, why not apply it to working conditions as well? After all, Apple must have its factories in other countries, just like they must use conflict metals, so how are they supposed to ensure that the factories are not mistreating workers? Dell does it too, right?
Well, Apple asks that their suppliers follow humane working conditions but can they control every aspect of the supply chain? Can they guarantee that their suppliers' suppliers do the same? No company can and for the record, Dell (and many other companies) uses the same manufacturers as Apple. For instance Foxconn [wikipedia.org].
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How about not using tantalum?
So what about communities who mine the stuff, doing everything completely by the book. Do you think they should end up in poverty because bad things happened in a completely different place in the world? This problem is destroying honest people's livelihood right now, you want to make it worse?
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(and all the profit they made on iProducts, which were all made using conflict minerals)
Presumably you're saying that for some reason more than just "they contain tantalum capacitors", as tantalum isn't ipso facto a conflict mineral, unless you're counting Australian rules football and capoeira matches as "conflicts" [indexmundi.com]. E.g., perhaps most or all of the tantalum used in capacitors comes from those countries, or perhaps most or all of the tantalum used in capacitors used in Chinese factories comes from those countries, etc..
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This is fair, but in reality the only way to ensure that none of the money spent making electronics finds its way to Congo would be for electronics makers to buy the tantalum (and other minerals) directly from countries like Australia or buy old electronics for recycling and ship the raw supplies to the appropriate places.
Only if the source of the material is pure. In your example if a capacitor company buys pure, raw tantalum from Australia directly yes; however, if they buy recycled material, how can you tell where it came from? The recycler may not know as it they get their material from a variety of sources. If you can identify with isotope dating or some other means it might be technically possible however I know of no means to separate every single material by origin in this manner. Then when these materials get mi
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Informative)
(and all the profit they made on iProducts, which were all made using conflict minerals)
Presumably you're saying that for some reason more than just "they contain tantalum capacitors", as tantalum isn't ipso facto a conflict mineral, unless you're counting Australian rules football and capoeira matches as "conflicts" [indexmundi.com]. E.g., perhaps most or all of the tantalum used in capacitors comes from those countries, or perhaps most or all of the tantalum used in capacitors used in Chinese factories comes from those countries, etc..
Actually, in 2009, Australian production dropped significantly [usgs.gov] ("The Government of Western Australia reported that tantalite production was 105 t of contained tantalum pentoxide (Ta2O5) in 2009 compared with 680 t of contained Ta2O5 in 2008 (Government of Western Australia, Department of Mines and Petroleum, 2010, p. 23)."), due to a mine suspending operation due to market conditions ("Talison Minerals Pty. Ltd. suspended production at the Wodgina Mine, the world’s leading producing operation of tantalum ore, owing to the global financial downturn and greater market share going to central Africa, where tantalum minerals were mined under conditions of armed conflict and human rights abuses [northeastern regions of Congo (Kinshasa)]."). So the chances that the tantalum in a capacitor was conflict tantalum went up substantially in 2009. Dunno what's happened since then. (See the Wikipedia article on coltan [wikipedia.org] for summary tables.)
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Presumably you're saying that for some reason more than just "they contain tantalum capacitors", as tantalum isn't ipso facto a conflict mineral, unless you're counting Australian rules football: and capoeira matches as "conflicts" [indexmundi.com].
For the benefit of anyone who's never seen an Australian Rules Footy match, it can be best described as two teams of Aussie men trying to kill each other whilst keeping an umpire distracted with a ball.
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This is the best description of the game ever.
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And what made-in-the-USA alternative computers and cell phones are they going to buy instead?
If we begin with the premise that we need computers and cell phones -- and I think living in modern American society does necessitate that -- then we should talk about not replacing electronics until they are broken beyond repair. How many times have you seen people upgrade a perfectly functional computer, for no reason other than that something a little faster is on the market? How many times have you seen someone throw out a cell phone that works just fine, because a new model came out? How many time
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How many times have you seen people upgrade a perfectly functional computer, for no reason other than that something a little faster is on the market?
Outside of my PC gaming geek circle.. never.
Maybe you should get out and meet people.
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Informative)
They will check working conditions and...then do what when they find violations? Is there any reason to think that Apple will stop doing business with factories that mistreat workers? Is this going to be another sham like Apple's treatment of the conflict minerals situation (where Steve Jobs basically threw his hands up and said that Apple could do nothing about it)?
1. Apple actually _has_ stopped doing business with companies in the past due to mistreating workers and other reasons. Apple has also in the last year made companies repay $3.3 million in fees that workers paid to agencies to find jobs.
2. The situation with "conflict minerals" is actually a lot more difficult than you think. There are plenty of honest and hard-working communities losing out at the moment because nobody knows what paperwork would have to be filled out to be allowed to buy their products.
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The situation with "conflict minerals" is actually a lot more difficult than you think. There are plenty of honest and hard-working communities losing out at the moment because nobody knows what paperwork would have to be filled out to be allowed to buy their products.
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not hire some American, Canadian, or European workers to produce electronics? It would eat into profits and drive up prices?
You know, in a free(-ish) market, this is not a choice. You must use the cheapest, most profitable method that is available. The reason is that if you don't, somebody else will, and they will eventually drive you out of business.
The real question is not why Apple do not hire American, it why people do not want to buy american. If the consumer does not care about what/who made his gadget, the condition, moral, social impact, ... then they will get the cheapest possible standard for all those criteria. Consumers drive the show.
Actually, the fact that Apple is even looking at the problem, means that there is pressure coming from the consumer. This is a good thing. Save your energy bashing Apple and use it instead to inform the consumer.
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Apple isn't leading the market based on price - their products are among the most expensive. It seems that using cheap labour simply maximizes their profit. I'd be interested in seeing a real justification that Apple would go out of business or lose their place in the market if th
Right sentiment, wrong problem. (Score:2)
If you read the Steve Jobs biography, he's quoted as telling the President that the reason Apple doesn't manufacture in the US has nothing to do with labor costs. The reason is that they can't get the 30,000 manufacturing engineers necessary to support 700,000 factory workers because the education system is fucked. China has no problem producing the engineers necessary to keep such a factory going.
Re:Then what? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually yes, in Apple's most recent audit report they mention that they have actually stopped using some suppliers after finding continued violations of their working practices.
Joining the FLA just adds a further layer of third party oversight.
They've been releasing these audits publicly since 2007, but this time (presumably after Steve was out of the picture) they have decided more PR is required in response to all the "suicide iPad factory zomg!" stories.
Like any large company that outsources labour, they are not going to have a spotless record.
The summary, in obvious slashdot fashion, is doing the best it can to make this announcement as negative as possible, but the fact of the matter is the audits themselves being public is not new (although the supplier list is), and that the FLA's role is one of third party auditing and they have access to the whole of Apple's supply chain - that they'll only audit a small percentage each time (of their choosing) is more an indication of their manpower and the vast size of Apple's operations than anything else.
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Apple has learnt is lesson and I'm pretty sure this time Steve Jobs won't throw his hands up.
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You haven't looked. I would recommend the work of journalist and monologuist Mike Daisey, who currently has a one-man show off-broadway called "The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs". In it, he documents his visit to a Chinese Foxconn plant in Shenzhen and describes the unbelievably atrocious working conditions there (including the deaths of many Foxconn workers - not due to suicide - among them a man who dropped dead after working a non-optional
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Have at it, friend, and then come back and talk to me about the "freedom" that would come from having multi-national corporations operate unregulated and without workers being allowed to organize into unions. And whether the suicides at Foxconn were just examples of workers exercising their "freedom".
The workers have organized into a union, that's what the "P" is in PRC. The issue of unregulated multinational corporations is unrelated to Foxconn conditions. I've been to Shenzhen, have you? I didn't tour Foxconn's facilities, but I did tour Huawei's. Have you heard of them? You do realize that as bad as the conditions are, there are 200,000+ illegals in Shenzhen begging companies for jobs? The conditions are appalling, but they are better than the fields they ran away from. You are denying people
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So, you've got first-hand information about something that is not what we're talking about. Very good.
I am nothing of the sort. I am a Jesus Christ-style, FDR Democrat. I believe in redistributing the wealth. I believe in strong unions (American-style unions), stronger regulations, an even stronger social safety-net and a top tax bracket well over 50%.
I appreciate capitalism, but it's lik
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So, you've got first-hand information about something that is not what we're talking about. Very good.
You said "Remember, the factories in Shenzhen are models for the manufacturing world." I've been in a factory in Shenzhen. I have direct first-hand knowledge about what you are talking about. Unfortunately, that means you think you are a non-sequitur, as a comment directly related to your comment is off topic according to you. Why are you talking about "factories in Shenzhen" when you really mean "Foxconn and Foxconn only"? Or are you just lying to win an argument?
I am a Jesus Christ-style, FDR Democrat.
So you are just anti-capitalist. Got
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He admits to not having been to the Foxconn plant, so how is that "firsthand experience"?
Further, you have to ask yourself, "In what capacity was he touring the Hanwei plant?". If he's there representing a company that is going to use that factory to make a product, then he's got a very strong incentive to not really care whether the workers are mistreated, or worse.
I find the work of a group of professional, multiple award-winning journalists to be more
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Further, you have to ask yourself, "In what capacity was he touring the Hanwei plant?". If he's there representing a company that is going to use that factory to make a product, then he's got a very strong incentive to not really care whether the workers are mistreated, or worse.
I was not representing a company. I was completing a masters degree through Carnegie Mellon business school with classes in China (taught by American instructors in English) because I wanted the education and the opportunity to experience a new culture before bashing them over the Internet. I lived on Huawei's corporate campus for 3 weeks in Shenzhen (and lived in a college dorm in Beijing for another 3 weeks for the other half of the class). But then, getting an education obviously means I was biased to
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Then I'm sure the idea of 16 workers living in a 12'x12' room with closed circuit cameras watching them just thrills you.
Last time I heard, "Exploitation of Third World Workers - 301" was a required course for MBA candidates. You probably dream about bringing Shenzhen factory conditions to a plant in South Carolina. You have said that more than a dozen Foxconn workers committing suicide due to the hopelessness and misery of their wo
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Last time I heard, "Exploitation of Third World Workers - 301" was a required course for MBA candidates.
Only if you are talking to yourself. Go get an MBA and then tell us what you think of the education. Oh wait, you are unwilling to listen to anyone else, especially if they supposedly know more than you.
So instead, you post anti-intellectual garbage about how education corrupts (implying that being uneducated is better than having an education - justifying your failure to complete high school?).
You have said that more than a dozen Foxconn workers committing suicide due to the hopelessness and misery of their working conditions is an example of them is simply an example of "freedom" in action.
They had the freedom to go home to the fields and chose not to. Why do you think that is so (oh wait, I lost y
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Son, I spent 25 years of my life in academia, the last 16 teaching at a top-5 US university. I spent more time as a professor than the entirety of your education since kindergarten. Calling me "anti-intellectual" and opposed in any way to education shows that you have a little bit of a tin ear. As long as you've been around here, I would have thought you'd have heard of me. A lot of people here on Slashdot know who I am in real l
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No question about it. But this article was about Apple, so I pointed out Apple's part in the mistreatment of workers.
It's good that you bring up Microsoft. It underlines the point that the notion of Apple being a more enlightened and progressive company is simply myth. When it comes to destroying lives in pursuit of profits, there is
Apple Should Be Commended (Score:5, Insightful)
Look. Almost EVERY company that makes almost EVERYTHING in your home participates in the awful near-slave manufacturing that goes on in China and other third world countries.
Their motivation aside, Apple is by far one of the best and most responsible manufacturers, simply by doing the (very very) little that they do. Singling out Apple is just Apple hate.
I don't know why ... (Score:3)
I don't know why but that comment reminded me of this cartoon for some reason (NSFW).
http://www.oglaf.com/relief/ [oglaf.com]
Apple Should NOT Be Commended (Score:3)
Jan 1st the California Transparency in Supply Chains Act came into effect - Apple didn't do this because of This American Life, they've been brought kicking and screaming to this point by the politicians and public opinion in general
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Is there a list for each company? I'd love to see what companies companies use.
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Re:Apple Should Be Commended (Score:5, Insightful)
See, this is why most companies just say 'screw it, ignore the entire mess'
I doubt there is a single person on Slashdot who can honestly say that they don't own a single thing that was produced at some level using what is effectively slave labor. Apple is doing more than 99% of companies do to ensure that their workers are treated properly around the world. Not perfect, but better than most. And the reward for even acknowledging the problem is righteous condemnation from the peanut gallery while companies that brush it under the rug get a pass.
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The point is that under this situation that large slave owner is still a slave owner. Slavery is a pretty right or wrong issue, either you have slaves or you don't. Treating slaves poorly is just a bad business decision the same way that bashing the copy machine is. In the end people are still being treated like property.
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If you are a capitalist then you believe in individual liberty regardless of government.
Not necessarily. If you are, say, a "classical liberal" or a libertarian, you probably would believe that, but if you're only out for profit you might not care.
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Re:Apple Should Be Commended (Score:4, Insightful)
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If you weren't such a fucking idiot, you'd know that Apple didn't start this patent mess, they just responded to suits against them, by Nokia et al...
They responded to suits against them by Nokia, by suing HTC and Samsung? Wow, that's a legal strategy and a half.
Labour standards (Score:3, Interesting)
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Soooo flip that on end. Does that mean in the US we can follow the labor rules of china if we only sell to them?
And yes I am being a smart ass...
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As a former resident, and still a citizen of a developing country, I will say to you that that is the most protectionist bullshit I have ever heard. Poor countries have _one_ competitive advantage - the ability to charge and work for lower wages (including worse working conditions) than the developed countries. Any form of legislation that forces poor countries to raise conditions is in effect attempting to forcibly remove their competitive advantage and keep their people in perpetual poverty. Western capit
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Following this logic, short on Wal-Mart, immediately, their entire business is based on importing products that would be more expensive if they were made according to the labour standards of the US.
Hint:
China does NOT have to sell to you.
If you somehow managed to get the EU and the US to do a joint bill, it might maybe work.
But which rules would then apply? Aren't labour rules state rules in the US? (And Canada, and a a lot of other places except the EU, which has member states who have such rules)
How many steps? (Score:5, Informative)
How many steps?
Like many on /., maybe, I've purchased bare LCD modules. You know the type, HM(whatever it was) protocol, in the olden days you'd have to provide offboard neg voltage to control contrast. Anyway the relevant point is there's about ten companies between my OEM LCD modules and some dude digging stuff outta the ground. One company does nothing but turn purified chemicals into glass. Another company runs the refinery that makes the resin that gets mixed by another company with fiberglass and has a sheet of copper stuck on to it to make bare PCB material. Another mixes ingots of lead and tin (in the past, anyway) and a couple other elements and casts ingots of solder for the wave soldering machine (since replaced by reflow process using paste). I might have a window into the LCD board stuffing assembly plant, but I have no idea whats going on at ye olde tin smelter or the other 99% of the people who built my LCD modules.
I know many apple products are mostly OEM devices. They hardly make their own accelerometers in their own silicon foundries. I'm not sure if its relevant to even bother watching the 1% of the population at the assembly plant... In fact the further you are from final assembly, the worse things seem to be, at least in my factory experience.
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I believe you mean the hd44780 controller.
I too have a box of such LCDs, and wrote a few LCDproc modules back in the day.
You are quire correct about all the companies involved with the raw construction of the LCD, not to mention the HD chip itself was another addition made by a separate OEM company. These days there are plenty of additional controllers that can sit between that chip and either the LCD (to provide pixel based addressing commands) and the user (4 bit parallel? Too hard for most, so now there
Re:How many steps? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm highly disappointed (Score:2)
And here I thought Apple products were made high in the mountains of California by gnomes who sprinkled magic pixie dust on them before shipping.......
no, but after long term exposure to n-Hexane (Score:2)
they probably think they are gnomes sprinkling magic pixie dust.
the FLA (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
No good if they know when they're coming (Score:2)
In another first, the company also announced that it will allow an independent third party to check on working conditions at those factories, and to make its findings public.'
Re: (Score:2)
...which will have to report favorable findings if it wishes to operate in that country.
And you are an idiot. Read this here: http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/ [apple.com] Trying to influence the findings in any audit is a sure way for a company to lose their business with Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
And you are a naif.
Imagine morale at my factory is poor. Well, I'm going to start beating my employees--and I'll continue to beat my employees until their morale improves. That would probably cause me to lose my business with Apple. So I really have nothing to lose by trying to bribe the auditor, do I?
The beauty of this is that when this all comes out, Apple can say, "Well, Gosh! We didn't know this was happening! We'll do something about this right away!" and will proceed to cancel both of those contr
Interestingly (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Or it could be that, having acquired Anobit, Apple no longer considers them a separate company. Or perhaps Apple had not been dealing with Anobit directly, but rather through a third party who is on the list. Or that the list was compiled from sources that lag behind actual production by a number of months and Anobit will show up on the next update. Lots of possible reasons without having to stretch for a conspiracy.
Re:Interestingly (Score:4, Funny)
I don't see Anobit on that list of suppliers. And, considering Apple just acquired Anobit for its NAND flash ECC firmware, it makes me wonder why they'd do that without having even used its product first. Or could this list from Apple be only what it's willing to reveal?
Anobit is an engineering company in Israel. If you are worried about their working conditions, shouldn't you be much more worried about the working conditions of software developers in the US gaming industry? Do you think they are subject to cruel treatment, like having to use Windows on a Dell computer?
Where is Corning? (Score:2)
I don't see Corning Corporation on the list, which puzzles me. I thought that Apple uses Gorilla Glass in a bunch of their products?
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see Corning Corporation on the list, which puzzles me. I thought that Apple uses Gorilla Glass in a bunch of their products?
If so Corning may license the process to another manufacturer and not do the manufacturing themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see Corning Corporation on the list, which puzzles me. I thought that Apple uses Gorilla Glass in a bunch of their products?
If so Corning may license the process to another manufacturer and not do the manufacturing themselves.
Or they might buy touchscreen front panels, built with Gorilla Glass, from some other vendor.
(puts on Elvis glasses) (Score:2)
Apple posts list of manufacturers of its products. (Score:2)
Then Apple realizes to cut costs on storage, appends the list to next years litagation itinerary..
Sorry, couldn't resist.
-Hackus
The Devil's Advocate (Score:5, Insightful)
I really enjoyed the This American Life episode mentioned in the summary, and one of the things I found really interesting was the second part.
The first part was all about the terrible conditions the guy found at Foxcon and other manufacturers. The second part was all about what we should take away from this.
The general concensus is that, yeah, these factories are terrible, but they're actually a step up from the abject poverty the 3rd world would otherwise be in. Even more surprising, things are improving. Factories are starting, ever so slowly, to compete with each other for workers, and that means they're easing off on hours and otherwise making incremental improvements to the workers' quality of life.
This isn't to say that we should be okay with how the workers are treated. Simply that, given a choice between no sweatshops or sweatshops as they currently exist, the workers are actually better off with the sweatshops. And sweatshops are really the first step on the ladder of development. The industrialized Western countries went through very similar pains during the industrial revolution. In a few generations, Chinese working conditions might actually look a lot more like turn-of-the-century American working conditions, even without outside pressure.
Re: (Score:2)
given a choice between no sweatshops or sweatshops as they currently exist, the workers are actually better off with the sweatshops.
The choice isn't limited to no sweatshops or sweatshops as they currently exist. It may be an improvement over the past period of no sweatshops, but no one is proposing that factories be closed and not replaced. The challenge is how to improve things further given the consequences of global politics, culture and economics. To simply call it a win because it is better than one conceivable alternative or has improved from the past is unethical.
Re: (Score:2)
given a choice between no sweatshops or sweatshops as they currently exist, the workers are actually better off with the sweatshops.
The choice isn't limited to no sweatshops or sweatshops as they currently exist. It may be an improvement over the past period of no sweatshops, but no one is proposing that factories be closed and not replaced. The challenge is how to improve things further given the consequences of global politics, culture and economics. To simply call it a win because it is better than one conceivable alternative or has improved from the past is unethical.
And one way to "improve things further" is the path that Apple as taken, to hold their suppliers accountable for working conditions. How many other tech companies are doing this? Where are the news stories decrying their use of "slave labor" (which is already inaccurate to begin with)?
Re: (Score:2)
My comment was directed specifically to "the choice between no sweatshops or sweatshops". I have noticed NPR and many mainstream media reporters and commentators like to present a "silver lining" which is often just false a dichotomy or other logical fallacy and a disservice to the quality of the story presented. This seems to be the case here. It otherwise seems like a good report.
And one way to "improve things further" is the path that Apple as taken, to hold their suppliers accountable for working conditions.
Agreed.
How many other tech companies are doing this?
I have no idea. However, given the "me too" impulses of many modern CEOs, I hope that Apple's publicity will spark more
Re:a very interesting show (Score:5, Funny)
Hi everyone, I'm afraid Bonch couldn't be with us today but in his absence I'd just like to assure everyone that Google factories are much much worse than Apple ones - in addition to inhuman working conditions the factory drones have to watch ads all day long, have to give up all their personal info and, worst of all, don't get a seamless experience. That's right, no seamless experience with Google. Hope that clears everything up. Bye.