The Sketchbook of Susan Kare 173
theodp writes "The Mac wasn't the first computer to present the user with a virtual desktop of files and folders instead of a command line and a blinking cursor, but it was the sketchbook of Susan Kare that gave computing a human face to the masses. After graduating from NYU with a Ph.D. in fine arts, Kare was working on a commission from an Arkansas museum to sculpt a razorback hog out of steel when she got a call from high-school friend Andy Hertzfeld offering her a job to work on the Mac. The rest, as they say, is UI history. Armed with a $2.50 sketchbook, Kare crafted the casual prototypes of a new, radically user-friendly face of computing. BTW, just in time for holiday gift-giving, Kare has self-published her first book, Susan Kare Icons. So, could computing could use a few more artists, and a few less MBAs?"
A few less MBAs.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Is there any field that couldn't use less MBAs? It is a sort of community service to get the poor critters off the street, but they sure make a mess of things. Maybe we can find them a nice island somewhere.
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I know. How about retraining them, if possible?
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I know. How about retraining them, if possible?
You mean like... re-education camps? Hmmm...
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I realize you're just taking the piss, but as an MBA who has always understood technology, I've done fairly well. It's always fun to make fun of the MBAs when you're on the tech side, but the fact is, engineers don't know how to run companies. They don't know how to develop markets. They don't know how to sell products. Sure, they can make truly epic prototypes that look really awesome sitting in a private room. I've seen a lot of cool tech wizardry that went nowhere. Every successful example of computer technology has depended on a mix of both. But we can always do with fewer lawyers, totally.
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Yea, it is legacy MBAs that was taught the horrible stuff that is the problem.
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Sergy Brin, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg... Not an MBA amongst them. Where are these MBAs that know how to run companies?
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:4, Informative)
"The percentage of top 100 CEOs who earned an M.B.A. decreased from 37% in 2003 to 36% in 2004, to 35% this year [2005]. The percentage of all S&P 500 CEOs who have an M.B.A. has increased from 37% to 39% over the past two years."
content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005_CEO_Study_JS.pdf
There are a lot of MBAs who successfully run large corporations, but I realize that its fun to hate on them here.
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You're missing what is in common with the names I mentioned. What percentage of people who CREATED successful companies are MBAs. How close to 0%?
Sure once the founders retire or die, the companies find new people to run them. At that stage MBAs seem like the right qualification. But those MBAs are invariably far less successful than the founders.
successful companies created by MBAs (Score:2)
Have you looked at a Wall Street directory? I know they are all disgraces that would perform a ritualized suicide if they had an iota of decency. They don't, and they won't.
They are the product of the modern MBA, and until people get the balls to haul them off to jail (or the middle of the ocean), you will remain at the mercy of their childish schemes.
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Note by legacy I mean when they got the MBA.
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously? The point isn't that people who hold Masters in Business Administration know best per se, it is that successful technology businesses are not the result of good engineering, but the result of a mix of engineering, good business management, and marketing expertise. This is traditionally the area of the MBA, but this doesn't imply that a computer scientist can never ever under any circumstances understand things like SWOT. It means that understanding how to make a business successful is separate from knowing how to make cool technology. You have identified four companies out of an entire industry populated by many successful tech companies operated by businessmen. And incidentally, Steve Jobs is not an engineer or a computer scientist. Nor are Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. None of these guys fits the profile of the typical software engineer. And Sergy Brin and Larry Page worked with Eric Schmidt who possessed executive experience, realizing the need for someone who understood how to run a business.
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I didn't say anything about software engineers. Saying that MBAs are bad isn't the same as saying software engineers are good.
I wouldn't have included Steve Jobs on the list if I'd been making a point about software engineers.
Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg obviously are software engineers though, unless you're discounting them for dropping out to create companies rather than finish their studies. Which would be pretty silly because dropping out of college to create a company is an even bigger pointer to suc
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I was just using SEs as an example. Obviously, the industry has more engineers than just SEs. Again, you listed a handful of people who don't represent the bulk of the industry, and most of those you listed cannot be claimed by engineers as one of theirs if business admins can't equally claim them as one of their own just because of that education. Eric Schmidt is far more than than just a software engineer. Most software engineers, maybe not even many, have his executive experience. My point about proper e
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I'm not going to bring up a list of every Silicon Valley company that isn't Apple, Microsoft, or Google just to find MBAs who do a good job of running their companies.
The fact that you'd have to scan a list to find some MBAs and I just listed the founders of the top tech companies says it all.
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Fine, off the top of my head: Paul Otellini, Meg Whitman, Kevin Rollins, John Scully, Sam Palmisano, Lee Kun-hee, Zhentang Wang, Carly Fiorina, Greg Brown. Granted, some of these names comes with caveats. You either loved Fiorina's HP or you hated according to the insiders I knew. Greg Brown's degree was in economics. John Scully's Apple isn't everyone's favorite. And eventually people turned on Kevin Rollins. Obviously, the tech industry has a smaller number of MBA chiefs than do other industries, but some people would argue that while they are not Google or Facebook; Intel, Dell, and Samsung are somewhat successful companies.
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You seem to be making my points for me. Scully and Fiorina wrecked the companies they were hired to run. Don't know enough about the others you mention.
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dropping out of college to create a company is an even bigger pointer to success than not being an MBA.
That's only because you're looking at already successful companies and then looking at how they got started. What about all the kids who dropped out of college to start a company that failed?
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm no fan of Bill Gates, but he did write the original Microsoft BASIC back in the mid 1970s, and fit it in 4K, the first person do do such a thing. Now, lots of people could do it, but then, with the tools and knowledge of the day it was quite a feat. He's certainly a software engineer, and a notable one at that.
I like to make fun of web app developers too. But in reality it is real software engineering, often with a greater variety of skills needed than classic programming. Not for the simplest web sites, but certainly for something like a social app.
I agree they are scumbags, but they are successful company founding software engineer scumbags.
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You are thinking of Paul Allen [wikipedia.org]. Yes, Gates was tangentially involved, but even Gates himself credits Allen as the brains behind the work, and it was Allen who had the background and skills.
In some cases this may be true, but we are talking about Facebook in its infancy. Web front end developm
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You are thinking of Paul Allen. Yes, Gates was tangentially involved, but even Gates himself credits Allen as the brains behind the work, and it was Allen who had the background and skills.
Your version of the story isn't supported by evidence. You might try reading Paul Allen's version [vanityfair.com]:
"I'd occasionally catch Bill grabbing naps at his terminal during our late-nighters. He'd be in the middle of a line of code when he'd gradually tilt forward until his nose touched the keyboard. After dozing for an hour or two, he'd open his eyes, squint at the screen, blink twice, and resume precisely where he'd left off--a prodigious feat of concentration. [..] And it was a true collaboration. I'd estimate th
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I think at this point you should just admit you have no evidence on your side. Provide a cite if you do.
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Or at this point I could laugh at your feeble attempt to win by saying that if I don't want to spend the next several days trying to find the footage for the interview where I specifically heard Gates make the statement then you automagically are correct.
I specifically recall it, because it was one of the few times I actually had to give Gates his props for being truthful for a change. I promise you I don't care if you believe it or not. The fact that Allen made a contradictory statement means nothing. I
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What's pathetic is your lack of citations but strong claims. Also, what's really pathetic is saying that Allen's statement "means nothing." The man was there, in the thick of it. The same man that you claim deserves all the credit. You think that he completely misremembers working on the project together?
Your personal anecdote of a video you are recalling from memory means nothing. I can provide an actual citation to video where Gates says he recalls every line from the BASIC implementation.
You have no evid
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I think that you will find in the technology world MBAs and the type typically destroy companies. Look at HP, Yahoo!, AOL...how'd them MBAs work out for 'em?
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Sure, that's a fair point. As one person already, noted legacy MBAs can be problem. What it takes is business leadership by individuals who can see both sides of the coin. I'll mention Eric Schmidt again, but he might not be a good example if we consider the arguments that Google has become so focused on business performance that it's killing projects prematurely for failure to give an instant high ROI rather than nurturing those projects. Eric Schmidt is an engineer, formally, but he hasn't worked as an en
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Well, I think it happened after Larry Page became CEO. And on AOL:
http://www.quora.com/Did-AOL-make-it-hard-to-cancel-in-order-to-keep-customers [quora.com]
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Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Sergy Brin, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg
One of these things is not like the others.
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One of them is dead as slashdotters are well aware.
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You forgot Ken Olson (DEC), Scott McNealy (Sun), John Warnock (Adobe), Alan Ashton (WordPerfect), Philippe Kahn (Borland) ...I could go on. And, arguably, all of those companies were a lot better off when they were lead by their original CEOs than they are now ...those that even still exist.
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I realize you're just taking the piss, but as an MBA who has always understood technology, I've done fairly well.
Well, that's the point innit? If more MBAs actually understood technology they'd all do "fairly well", as would we all.
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A good example of the worst excesses is the pulp fiction industry. Ever wonder what happened to it? Basically, there was just one company that was distributing all the the books, and that company had accumulated a ton
Re:A few less MBAs.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's less about having less MBA, and simply having less people telling actual creators and innovators what to do, and what not to do.
Our society is going nowhere if our developments and actions are being decided by people who don't understand what the things they're making decisions about.
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Indeed, I think this is the root cause of all the buzzwords.
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Indeed, I think this is the root cause of all the buzzwords.
We need a new term for that. I think we should call it "buzzwordification". It sounds much cooler than "buzzwordiation".
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Half a decade before the Macintosh, a Harvard MBA named Dan Bricklin invented the first spreadsheet application, VisiCalc. It's not about having people with or without degrees, it's about having creative and innovative people, whatever their background.
causality. (Score:3)
I don't think having an MBA causes incompetence, but like moths to a flame, the talentless are so drawn.
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they sure make a mess of things. Maybe we can find them a nice island somewhere.
Unfortunately an MBA took over this island we call "America". Indeed, he did make a mess of things. I'm not inclined to give an island, or anything that exists in the physical world, to an MBA. How about we pair each MBA up with one of our surplus lawyers (we have tons of 'em where I live and I suspect that is the case in other places, too) and encourage them to sue each other? That should keep them busy for a while...
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Is there any field that couldn't use less MBAs? It is a sort of community service to get the poor critters off the street, but they sure make a mess of things. Maybe we can find them a nice island somewhere.
This is no joke. There is a team in our company that has five managers and five web developers, all MBAs. That's almost as many as the team that runs and maintains our web applications. We thought this was overkill - such a large team occasionally adding a link or a page to a static site. Recently we found that they are actually outsourcing this work, and all ten of them just "manage" it!
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Argghhh... Mucked up the reference.
Thanx Graham for getting it right.
bait... (Score:2)
Present a dumb-ass obvious ponzi scheme as a business venture that requires them to move to an island. Your only problem is finding a big enough island. You might get away with a photo of one, then they will all drown.
Aha (Score:2, Interesting)
So now I know who made the Mac so insufferably ugly. For me it was a retch at first sight. I think I may be the only one in the world but I have consistently hated every single artistic and stylistic choice Apple ever made with their GUI (their hardware designs sometimes look OK, e.g. iPhone 4)
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What's your idea of good computer design? Let me guess... a teletype emulation?
Re:Aha (Score:5, Interesting)
I do not know why I got marked as flamebait. I clearly stated it was my personal opinion and I meant every word without intent of inciting a flamewar. Mods are on crack.
That said, to me the ideal design of GUI so far has been Windows 95, with toolbar autohide. Horrible OS but imho best GUI ever. Clean, simple, rectangular without the horrible rounded corners. Grey background, forgettable fonts, and equally neutral pointer shapes.
I have always hated icons and preferred text instead but I have yet to see a GUI with labels instead of pictures by default. Other than that - Windows 95 got most things right.
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OK, I see what you mean. But even there, some icons are irreplaceable:
1) Close, Minimise and Maximise at the corner of every app window. How much more ugly and less usable they would be if they were words instead of icons?
2) What about arrows on the scroll bar ends? You can do scroll bars without them now, but back in 1995, many people were new to computers and needed the clue as to what that strip at the right of the window did.
3) In a file manager list, how are you going to distinguish between a directo
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Ah, screwed formatting by using angle brackets. Can't be bothered redoing it.
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Yes, you are the only one in the world who has hated every choice Apple has made with their GUI. :)
I've disliked a lot of their choices over the decades, and I've got a BFA in design that supposedly means my criticisms have some validity. But Apple has gotten right far more than they've gotten wrong. For example, the rounded rectangle, which was the shape of the screen image in Finder 1.0, and available to programmers as a standard shape in its graphics routines (along with line, circle, and square), and w
So not everybody who did well dropped out... (Score:5, Insightful)
So not everybody who did well dropped out: a PhD in art history as well as a maker (her PhD thesis title "A study of the use of caricature in selected sculptures of Honore Daumier and Claes Oldenburg").
Nice to know it's possible to balance the two, it will make some of my PhD student friends very happy indeed :-)
wrong (Score:2, Informative)
No, Xerox didn't "doom the future", they just started with an expensive first product and t
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Re:wrong (Score:4, Informative)
getting rid of pretty much all the software infrastructure of the Xerox devices, stripping them down to a mere shell
Yeah, right. "Stripping". By adding things like pull down menus and drag and drop. Things that didn't exist on the Xerox system. Things that didn't exist at all till Apple invented them.
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Bullshit. Pulldown menus existed in many software products. What Apple 'invented' was a crippled little box with a collection of applets in it and no third party software for a year or so. The Mac 128 was a joke machine.
Re:wrong (Score:4, Informative)
Bullshit. Pulldown menus existed in many software products.
Name a single one that preceded the Lisa. You can't because Apple did indeed invent the pull down menu.
Wikipedia even mentions it. Though they erroneously call them drop-down menus (which was a Microsoft variant) rather than pull down menus as Apple called them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface [wikipedia.org]
I recognise your user name as someone who is very often wrong. I suggest you should do a little research before posting in future.
Mod this up (Score:2)
Where are mod points, when you need them...
Re:wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Again, neither Xerox nor anyone else had pull-down menus nor anything like it. Xerox used buttons for commands. Either physical buttons on the custom keyboard, or screen buttons rather like a text button version of a modern day toolbar. Nothing like pull-down menus.
So, what you call "pull down menus" was a minor graphical variation on existing practice at the time.
There's nothing minor about it. The two dimensional menus within a menu concept was novel, new and is a central ingredient of most GUI OSs to this day.
Whether or not it's attached to the screen or the app window *IS* a minor variation, yet that's something you bring up in the hope of changing this from a discussion of fact, to one of preference.
Re:wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Many systems had a global hierarchical menu, some put them at the top, some used vertically stacked buttons, some used a menu button. Apple's choice was a minor variation of these systems,
I've asked for a specific example. The only one you've given is Xerox, and you're wrong on that. Give it up.
Yeah, you're just the typical Apple fanboy trying to rewrite history.
On the contrary. I've given the history. I've linked to Wikipedia to prove it. You're the one who's denying history, without a scrap of anything to back you up. And the reason you're doing it is you hate Apple. Grow up.
Ya, but... (Score:2)
This is the internet, and there are something to rules that govern such arguments. Everybody has an opinion and they're equal. Anecdotal story trumps opinion. Authoritative opinion trumps anecdotal data. Website trumps authoritative opinion. Authoritative website trumps a normal website. Real world citation beats an authoritative website and it ends there since nobody is going to spend time enough to actually look stuff in meat space.
One might questions whether Wikipe
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Actually, it wasn't hell to program. By the standards of the day, it was really not bad. Its built-in toolbox managed many chores for you - want a window, one line and you got one. Compared to today it looks quite low level, but at that time it was very high level. The first app I wrote for Mac (other than "hello world") was a full multi-windowed, menu and event driven affair that responded in real time to emergency radio transmissions. There was no way I could have d
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Re:wrong (Score:5, Informative)
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They could've produced an easy to use personal computer but they didn't. They were too busy chasing their own bread and butter to try to change the world.
Xerox had a decade to put out a Mac style product for the masses. They never did. They doomed themselves to being a printer and copier company since then.
Plato was the inspiration (Score:5, Informative)
The Plato IV protoypes used a plasma panel with touch screen in the late '60s, and had downloadable characters you could point to to activate different functions. Not a far reach to make those program and folder icons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system) [wikipedia.org]
Do you realize who this is? (Score:5, Informative)
Susan Kare is very well known in the visual design world. She is the world's leading icon designer. Not only did she do the icons for the Mac, she did some of the icons for Windows. And Autodesk products. And PayPal. And Facebook.
(If the Linux crowd had someone that good, Linux on the desktop would probably be a success by now.)
Re:Do you realize who this is? (Score:5, Informative)
She did the icons for Nautilus too.
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Re:Do you realize who this is? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know your mouse pointer? You know, the one that changes to indicate what actions are available depending on what you're pointing at? They're icons too. Icons also take up significantly less space in a toolbar than text, and are much faster for the human eye to recognise. The world of icons is not restricted to what litters your desktop.
Also real work does not always == coding. Icons indicating which tool you have selected in photoshop (for instance) are most definitely used for 'real work'.
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It's interesting you should mention that. Are icons really faster than text to recognize? I doubt it. Humans are trained to read text from the time we start s
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It's interesting you should mention that. Are icons really faster than text to recognize? I doubt it. Humans are trained to read text from the time we start school, and we're really good at it for most of us.
Most icons are going to take up less space on the screen compared to text, so you can fit more on. I suspect that, even if text is faster to read, the size benefit would probabaly win over it.
I guess there is also the idea that the same icon can be used across multiple languages, so long as the meaning is the same, without having to translate lots of buttons.
Although nowadays you do have this weird situation whereby an icon of an abstract concept is still used as an icon, but no longer used in the physic
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Your complaints only apply to badly designed icons. ...other than your complaint about icons on the desktop. I'd agree that they are a waste of time.
History has the answers (Score:2)
So, could computing could use a few more artists, and a few less MBAs?
This is easy:
If you want to give people a system that works for every Joe Sixpack and is shiny and easy to use, but costs more: Hire lots of artists and designers, use a proven bulletproof backend, and keep a few brilliant devs on hand. Easy interoperability between your company's devices is king.
If you want to earn lots of money: Hire as many MBAs as you can get your hands on, put at least one of them in charge of each of your dev teams, and have an already established majority market share. Features befor
More BFAs (forget the MBAs) (Score:4, Interesting)
As someone with a BS in Computer Science and a BFA in Digital Media and Illustration, I'd certainly like to have more of the latter working in computing. Visual trainwrecks like the Windows XP Fisher-Price theme, usability disasters like Microsoft's game of "Where's The Button (and Menu)?" in every software upgrade in the last decade, and the less said about the uncanny valley that gaming has gotten lost in the better... sometimes make me want to quit tech and become an oil painter.
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I don't use those as letters after my name; go take pot shots at someone who actually does. I'm talking about the fact that Microsoft hides and renames things then hides them somewhere else from one version to another, something that even a lot of Microsoft fanboys admit is annoying. Anyway, you should consider going back to school as well... and graduating.
Susan Kare Demonstrating the Mac (Score:3, Informative)
For all you computer history geeks out there, here is a clip from Computer Chronicles of Susan Kare demonstrating the Mac back in 1984:
http://www.archive.org/details/Computer1984_3?start=772 [archive.org]
This article is typical of the way things work (Score:2)
Yes, Mac wasn't (Score:2)
"The Mac wasn't the first computer to present the user with a virtual desktop of files and folders instead of a command line and a blinking cursor"...
Indeed. It was Xerox.
I'm going to be very shallow here... (Score:2)
Susan Kare is a seriously good looking woman.
Re:Icons (Score:5, Funny)
With the death of Steve Jobs, I believe we are going to see more early Mac artifacts like this one begin to emerge, forming the framework for what will be the fastest growing religion of the coming decade. File this one under, "Mac Nativity". Sketchbooks of ur-icons. Alchemical workbooks for the transmutation of blinking amber cursors into personal computers. Into the Macintosh.
Do you remember the articles that came out every day after his death for more than two weeks? "The Last Words of Steve Jobs". "The Death of Steve Jobs" by his sister. "What Steve Jobs said about (cultural item here)". "The Early Days of Steve Jobs", "Steve Jobs the Lost Years", "Steve Jobs on the Road to Damascus" and "Steve Jobs rides into Jerusalem on the Back of an Ass". His great sacrifice of his own health so the Company can bring forth the iPhone 4S. His vision, his time in the wilderness and his rise and ultimate ascension. It's as predictable as the Perseids: this is the first 21st century faith. He even knocked the trial of the killer of that other mythical figure, Michael Jackson, out of the headlines for a solid month. Television programming was interrupted to make the solemn announcement. No mere text crawl could be sufficient.
I'm setting the over/under on the first miracle performed in Steve Jobs' name at October, 2012.
I am not joking.
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I'm not saying anything at all about the contributions of Steve Jobs or Susan Kare, but rather, about those that have turned them into figures of nearly supernatural significance.
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Time travel? Don't be ridiculous. It was aliens [troll.me].
Re:Icons are a waste of time (Score:4, Insightful)
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Actually, you are the one who is incorrect. Icons are used all over the world for countless things. How do you know to stop when driving? The big red octagon. How do you find an elevator? Look for a square with arrows going up and down. Is something dangerous? Look for one of a standardized set of images.
You want studies? Look them up yourself, because you are the one who is making claims that go against reality.
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Actually, I wouldn't know about a big red octagon as a signal to stop.
My familiar stop signal is a human figure standing straight. Or a red circle, sometimes.
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A good icon works for readers of any language. You know that flag which identifies localized versions of a page? Thats an icon.
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ls /bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/X11R6/bin | wc -l
Oh my god. It's full of programs !
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Icons are faster than text if they are designed well.
Furthermore you do not need to translate them into other languages "when they have established themselves".
However, this is pretty hard. Look at traffic signes. There are only a few basic shapes and those are again accustomed by text. (Triangle, sitting on a corner, triangle sitting on an edge, octagon, square sitting on a corner, smaller rectangles with text for ranges or durations)
However if icons are more or less randomly created by programmers they mo
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Sorry, my GFs iPhones toggles can not be swiped, they only can be touched. No idea why. As they clearly look as to be ment to be swiped I was pretty confused.
Also unlike the english version (someone linked some photos) the german version only shows an "I" and on "O".
So after trying to switch off some configurations and feeling pretty stupid not to be able to do so, I can affirm you the usage is not "intuitive" or "stringent" or in anyway sensible.
(You know, the "other" colour you only can see when you succe
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iOS 5 changed the on/off text to I and O, like on power buttons and the like. The I representing a 1, or the on state, and the O representing a 0 or the off state.
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What are you talking about? iOS switches nether look nor behave how you're describing. Below you can see no end of examples of iOS switches. And if you actually use one you'd find that you can indeed slide them.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uiswitch&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=pujOTsrBHIWf8gP9uezsCQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CA8Q_AUoAQ&biw=1199&bih=668#hl=en&safe=off&client=safari& [google.co.uk]
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Well, on my GFs IPhone you can not slide the "switches". ;D
Linking a page with over hundred iPhone images is no help either
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Linking a page with over hundred iPhone images is no help either ;D
It serves very well to show that the switch you described is not and has never existed on iOS.
Well, on my GFs IPhone you can not slide the "switches".
Given that real iPhone switches neither look nor work how you're describing, Clearly it's not an iPhone. Do you even have a GF?
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Other languages use 1/0 for on/off in ios. Can't confirm slide vs tap behavior though, but my sister-in-law's phone did seem a little different In operation than an English iPhone.
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HÃ?
Every second image on the page you linked exactly shows the switch I describe.
What did you smoke last night?
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You sure it's an iPhone? I hear the Samsung Galaxy Android phones with TouchWiz look a LOT like an iPhone. I wouldn't be surprised if they copied that bit of the UI as well. (Gripe #1 - Google spent a LOT of time ensuring nothing in Android looked even remotely like the iPhone, and Samsung goes and throws it all away with their TouchWiz crap. It's not even a good imitation.)
Or is it one specific app? There's also a few web pages for iPhone that attempt
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No its brand new iPhone I bought 6 weeks ago for my GF ...
Do you really think I post on /. and can not distinguish an iPhone from a web page?
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I hope they haven't afflicted AZERTY keyboards on you.
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>> I hope they haven't afflicted AZERTY keyboards on you.
I remember the difficulty I had in sending an email from an AZERTY keyboard because no one told me about alt-right. Since english keyboards come with 2 shifts, 2 controls, and 2 alt keys we were never told some can do other things.