Woz Dumps on MacBook Air, iPhone, AppleTV 360
AcidAUS writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak heaped less than lavish praise on the company's iPhone, MacBook Air and Apple TV products when visiting Sydney this morning. Wozniak said he was puzzled by the lack of 3G support on the iPhone and that he didn't believe the MacBook Air would be a hit."
tag: omgtreason (Score:5, Funny)
Re:tag: omgtreason (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But hey, I totally get his reasoning. The Macbook Air was a disappointment for me, too. It belongs in Ripley's Believe it or Not moreso than a computer museum, what with such a small hard drive, etc... It was totally premature, imo - if they waited five more years, the MacBook Air might have re
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And that backs up his credentials how? A bunch of largely honorary citations, awards and non-exec positions; a company he founded that closed a few years later; some donations to charitable causes. Where is the impact on the business world (or anywhere else for that) that you and I both know the parent was referring to?
The fact is that Wozniak is rightfully credited as having made some of the most significant engineering ac
Hum (Score:5, Interesting)
On another note no one can say that the iPhone did not change the face of the cell phone market. I can't say if the new Air will do the same thing for the notebook market or not.
No questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple released a non-3G iPhone, to ensure that everyone who buys the first iPhone for $500, will buy the iPhone3G for $500, a year later.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
To have it use 3G and maintain it's current battery life might have taken extra engineering to squeeze more energy efficiency out of it, or a slightly more energetic battery. Wozniak doesn't strike me as a "product-cycle schedule is more important that the hardware" kind of guy.
3G (well-implemented) takes LESS energy... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:3G (well-implemented) takes LESS energy... (Score:5, Interesting)
When in a 3G service area, battery life is affected significantly compared to in a GSM service area, even if all the phone does is idle nearly the entire time.
My AT&T Tilt seems to eat through battery at least twice as fast in standby if it is in a UMTS service area than it does when in a 2G GSM-only area, or when I force it into GSM mode for improved battery life.
The iPhone is an extremely thin device - there is no way they could have implemented 3G with the current crop of 3G chipsets without either making the device much thicker or reducing battery life significantly, both more "non-Appley" traits than slower data service.
Disclaimer: This applies to 3G GSM, aka UMTS. 3G CDMA2000 (aka 1xEV-DO) doesn't carry the same battery life penalty in comparison to 2G/2.5G cdmaOne/CDMA2000 - Partly because the base modulation scheme has not changed significantly. If Woz is a Verizon or Sprint customer he won't see much battery penalty for an EV-DO phone. Something about UMTS makes it very hard to optimize for power efficiency compared to CDMA2000, even for the CDMA experts at Qualcomm. (UMTS uses a CDMA modulation scheme, but with different parameters and a completely different protocol suite than CDMA2000.) UMTS is notorious for bad battery life/handset heat generation, even when implemented in a Qualcomm chipset such as the MSM7k series.
Re:3G (well-implemented) takes LESS energy... (Score:4, Informative)
I own Samsung Z400 phone, but I don't have a plan that covers 3G. But the network is there. I had to manually turn off 3G, in order to get 3 days battery life instead of 2 day life.
My wife also owns the phone and one of our friends, and all of us benefited from turning 3G capabilities off.
Re:3G (well-implemented) takes LESS energy... (Score:5, Funny)
That sounds like a good deal. Is it hard to get health coverage for her slave?
Re:No questions (Score:5, Informative)
Why is this a 5? (Score:3, Interesting)
You may not agree with the reasons given and believe it is for marketing reasons, but this means you think Mr. Jobs is directly and purposefully trying to deceive the buying public when he said they were waiting for more efficient 3g chipsets. Why would he lie about such a thing if it were so easily disproved? He would risk his entire "believabi
Re:Why is this a 5? (Score:4, Interesting)
Jobs does this so often there is a name [wikipedia.org] for it. He knows that he has a fairly large fan base that will believe anything he says, even when it screws them over. Look at the fiasco with the AEBS and TM or the keyboard issues on the MBP that they have finally attempted to fix after nearly a year. It will be a bad day for Apple if people are ever logical about most anything they sell.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
-Ted
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Not.
Re:No questions (Score:5, Insightful)
There is probably an entirely different reason Apple "chose" not to include 3G.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
really? it doesn't seem to suck that much, or at all when I use my iphone. Its pretty damn fast.
I do happen to live in the most densely populated, and cell signal covered area in the USA though.
I am using T Mobile service also. YMMV.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Wifi on the iPhone was supposed to be a compromise. In some US cities, it's hard NOT to find an area with free Wifi. And in cities where the population density isn't so high, many places where you'll use an iPhone will have connectivity.
That said, lack of 3G is what kept me from buying an iPhone. I live in a ver
Re:No questions (Score:5, Insightful)
So not only does an EDGE iPhone load pages faster than a 3G otherphone, the pages look better as well.
And the tables tilt even further in the iPhone's favor with the interface itself.
Really, the only thing you miss out on not having 3G is when tethering the phone to a computer to use its internet connection (something the iPhone doesn't even officially support anyway). This *is* important to some people, but undoubtedly not for the overwhelming majority of people.
Re:No questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple felt it was better to get the parts they had working, working well, than it was to start adding whole new parts into the mix. While I would definitely like 3G, I'd rather have EDGE + the iPhone that's out now than 3G + delayed iPhone + lowered battery life + other aspects of the phone being less finished.
I also don't buy the "other 3G phones don't have battery problems" argument. The chips themselves don't lie, and they *do* require more power. You can't beat physics. What you *can* do is make the necessary concessions. Such as using less power on the rest of the phone, or using aggressive power management, or using a larger battery, or using EDGE chips most of the time and switching over the 3G on demand, etc. But in all of those cases, it would *absolutely and without question* diminish some other feature of the iPhone, making it larger, or later, or less powerful, or more laggy, etc. If the biggest complaint about the iPhone is that it uses EDGE instead of 3G, then given all the other great features of the phone, it's more than a fair trade, *especially* since a 3G iPhone is inevitable.
As for the battery being non-replaceable, the real question for me is, had the iPhone had a removable battery, would I have caved in and bought one by now? And the answer, for me, is a resounding 'no'. This means such an iPhone would have been larger or had a smaller capacity battery, and would have been structurally and aesthetically less solid. In other words, a whole lot of lose for absolutely no win.
Re:No questions (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't. The reason is so blindingly obvious, it takes a superb amount of fanboyism to ignore:
Apple released a non-3G iPhone, to ensure that everyone who buys the first iPhone for $500, will buy the iPhone3G for $500, a year later.
I think the reasons were a little more complicated. While I fully agree that Apple likes to ensure that their fans purchase the same thing many, many times, I don't think that's what happened here. I honestly think they would have gone with a better network initially if they could, but that they couldn't get a provider with 3G support and willing to cave to all their demands initially. What you're suggesting is that Apple intentionally crippled a product that, if we recall from a year ago, was given a real chance of being the next Newton. I think making a phone was sufficiently important to Jobs that he wasn't going to dick around intentionally crippling it.
We saw what he did instead - charge early adopters a tax for the privilege.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hum (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hum (Score:5, Insightful)
I looked on eBay last night, and the N95 goes for about half the price of the iPhone. In terms of features, it is far ahead of the iPhone. Would you pay twice as much for a better UI and fewer features?
re: Would you pay twice as much for better UI ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did the iPod become a huge success because it had the "most features for the dollar"? Hardly! It didn't even have a lousy built-in FM radio tuner! The beauty of it, though, was the overall form factor and UI functionality. While China and Korea were cranking out cheap little generic MP3 players with tiny buttons and single line LCD displays, Apple came along with a player that was easy and actually *enjoyable* for people to manipulate. I remember when I first bought a 2nd. generation iPod, I'd hand it to reluctant people who said "I don't know how to use one of these things!" - and within seconds, they'd get a big grin on their face when they realized how that scroll-wheel let them move through the menus. The whole thing just had a "satisfying" feel to operating it, and even to simply holding it in your hand comfortably.
Mac OS X is much the same way. It's a visually satisfying OS, as well as one that most people find relatively "friendly" to use once they give it a chance. If your only (or main) concern is having the most possible options to tweak/modify, then OS X isn't for you. Many aspects of the UI are chosen for you by Apple's designers, and you'll have to buy 3rd. party tools (that often destabilize the system or fail when updates come along) just to force the changes. On the other hand, MOST of us just want an operating system that's stable, looks good out of the box, and does the things we need it to do. OS X seems to accomplish all of this quite well.
I see the iPhone as yet another device in this vein. Some phones really cram in too MANY features, and it just makes the menus hard to navigate. Most cellphone users can't even tell you what some of the options do, or at least how to get to them on their phones. The iPhone does a pretty darn impressive job of making it easy to access the things you really might want to use on your phone, while leaving out a lot of the confusion. (EG. If I want to call forward my number to another number, I don't have to to remember that my carrier uses * and some 2 digit code to turn forwarding on, and another such code to turn it back off. I simply tap the "Call forward" option on the iPhone menu and key in the destination number for it. I then slide the switch to either "On" or "Off" and it's done.) And obviously, the web browsing experience blows away most of the competition. It's the first of many "Smartphones" I've had where I can surf "normal" web sites and actually read the content properly.
Re: Would you pay twice as much for better UI ? (Score:5, Interesting)
The iPhone is only a success in markets where mobile phones are treated as single-function devices. In the US market, this is the case. In the rest of the world, it isn't. The iPhone is like OS X: It does 70% of what I want it to do, and it does it very well. Unlike OS X, I can't add the remaining 30%. In contrast, the iPod does 100% of what I want it to do - it plays music. As someone who owns two Mac laptops and an iPod, I am not interested in the iPhone until it is available in an unlocked form.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Hum (Score:4, Informative)
The actual evidence contradicts your random opinions. According to Google and other web tracking sites, iPhone users search and browse the web between 2 and 10 times more than any other type of smart phone. That sounds like a game-changer to me.
I bought the iPod Touch because I didn't need a new phone, but even that is a game-changer. Until you carry it around for a few days you don't realize how much you'd use it.
Re:Hum (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hum (Score:5, Informative)
What's up with removable batteries? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a demand that I can't begin to understand. Don't you ever sleep? Can you not make it through a day on a single charge? Every cell phone I've ever had has had a removable battery, and not once have I ever felt the need to have an extra around.
Re:Hum (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
You are actually the first user I've heard say that Edge is sufficient.
Necessary. not sufficient (Score:3)
Read again. He was not saying EDGE is sufficient, he was saying it was necessary. And that is correct. Chipsets still use too much power ( a problem solved later this year) and 3G was not yet very widespread at launch (for instance, Denver had no 3G coverage - that is only in the last month or two starting to come online). That said...
Edge sucks. Every time I use it I have flashbacks to my dial up days.
EDGE is slow for browsing, but
lack of touchscreen... (Score:5, Interesting)
They should call it the Breeze or something. And put a low power mode for writing notes. The battery needs to squeeze out 8 hours for the device. It can be slower, that doesn't matter, it just needs to be a replacement for a clipboard.
There needs to be a mode on it called "scribble" or something, where the screen fills with a blank, lined or graph paper-like background, colour selection bar at the top, maybe a clear-screen quick button, a snap-to function for making quick hand drawn graphs, and IM support so you can reply with handwritten IMs, send notes, etc. It makes IM more personalized, and reduces the easily intercept-able plain text messages.
Make a version that's reasonably cheaper, maybe a low-colour display, flash memory storage, slower processor... but again, it's designed for taking notes. Maybe some web surfing as well. The advantage needs to be long battery life to get through an entire day of work or school without having to recharge it or plug it in.
Now I've shared the angst I've had pent up over electronics for the past 5 years. Somebody do something with this. Otherwise I'm just going to make it myself.
Re:lack of touchscreen... (Score:5, Insightful)
storage space is low
edits are limited/lossy
organizing/achiving/backing-up media is challenging and error prone beyond trivial use
searching is slow
long access time for reference data during work tasks
network transmission is slow and lossy
data re-entry to digital systems is time-consuming and error-prone.
It's a mark of how poorly tablets have been done thus far, that a clipboard still compares favorably.
It's not unlike the early days of personal computing, when people snickered about not having to reboot their typewriters.
Yet, as with desktops before them, it's just a matter of time before tablets are done well-enough that their drawbacks are trivial next to their advantages. The form-factor is too perfect to be relegated to the dustbin of history. Eventually someone will create a tablet computer with hardware and software built from the ground-up for its task. And it will carve itself a very respectable slice of the computing market.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'll be surprised if any $2k-3k laptop changes the current laptop market. There are simply too many low priced laptops out there and the air doesn't really cater to what most consumers want right now.
Re: (Score:3)
The iPhone could have been shipped with 3G, a built in GPS chip, a much louder internal speaker for better speakerphone/media playing without headphones, FM receiver, digital TV tuner, flash for the otherwise nice camera, slide-out qwerty keyboard, clickwheel on the back for eyes-free song changing . . . and on and on and on.
Any or all of these things might be "nice to have" but every new chip/doodad they add is more space, weight, sucks
I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, the macbook air isn't very good as a main computer, and the lack of 3G iphones has to do with battery life - Apple has chosen to offer certain features which are mutually exclusive with other features - I'm glad someone
I know a girl who has apple everything. She wouldn't buy a music player if it didn't come from apple - and she has 4 ipods, and 3 apple computers. She likes things to WORK, and she likes them to look beautiful. So, she ** IS ** apple's target market.
Me, on the other hand, I prefer other options - I LIKE figuring out how my gadgets work, and I like repairing them at home
Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I call BS. Apples don't "just work" any more than XP machines do. Wireless networking is hell if you want WPA encryption. What Apples do do is have more preloaded software. So, if you are considering the default software package, then sure. I have ha
Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:5, Insightful)
I concede that Apples are not perfect machines the way many fanboys claim they are, but I strongly disagree that they have as many problems as XP machines. "Just work" includes things like not having to resort to Google every time I want to find an infrequently accessed setting or command, which I find myself doing embarrassingly often on XP and Vista. They're both horribly laid out, and completely different from one another with respect to how to perform many common tasks.
OS X, even after a decade of dedicated Windows use, makes far more sense to me, and obviously to many others. It's clearly a personal matter, and you might not share the same opinion, but you can't deny that many people feel OS X is easier to navigate.
Wireless networking is hell if you want WPA encryption.
Wait... what? I've got WPA encryption on my network. The user experience was: OS X told me that the network required a password and prompted me to enter it. I entered it. And presto, I was hooked up to the network. Where exactly is the "hell" part?
What Apples do do is have more preloaded software. So, if you are considering the default software package, then sure. I have had to split my time equally between OSX and XP, and I spent far more time fiddling getting stuff to work in OSX.
What exactly did you have to fiddle with on the OS X side of things to get it to work?
Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:4, Informative)
Then, of course, there's the issue of EVERYTHING getting dumped into either
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And to the grandparent poster: I've still upgraded the RAM and HDD in my MacBook, but it's nice to have a system where everything works so brilliantly. And for that 5% of the time when I'm not letting OS X do things for me, there's a great CLI and certified Unix ner
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Name a UMPC that is. Or one that was a hit really.
Other companies seem to be able to pull it off.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I hate to burst your bubble, but everyone except the most rabid of fanboys (and I'll concede that the likes of Slashdot has a tendency for attracting them) has consistently said as much: if doesn't offer the features you require, don't b
Re: (Score:2)
Not everybody has the same needs, and if the MacBook Air doesn't fit your needs.... then don't buy it. It's not like it's the only notebook Apple offers, or that Apple is the only company selling notebooks.
Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the quality of the iMac systems have gone down since the switch-over to Intel. I'm not tempted to buy one and would rather continue to use my G5 (not an option much longer) or buy a PC. I have to buy a whole lot of extra junk and throw it away after using it because Apple couldn't/wouldn't make a more affordable and expandable desktop. I'd like a better video card. I'd like a second hard-drive inside the system, ditto a better DVD burner. So when I replace the iMac with a PC, I don't need the HDD and burner enclosure. My LCD monitor (on the iMac), if I decide not to keep the iMac is utterly useless to me as I can't change it from computer to LCD monitor (there is a way, I'm not tempted or skilled enough to try).
The iPod market is very much dependent on a throw-away society. My 5th Gen iPod's battery is supposed to last around 12 to 20 hours (can't remember the marketing lingo) but it has only ever lasted around 6 hours. I've replaced the battery myself with a higher life brand-name battery. Still same result. The shuffle, nano and the iPhone build on this idea of throw-away. I don't like the idea of having to send-in a cell-phone and not have access to it for a few days for Apple to change the battery. Hello?! for some people its their only phone. Calling 911, at the least, is going to be impossible!
Re:I'm glad SOMEONE is saying it... (Score:4, Informative)
So when I upgraded I decided to go with a MacBook, partly because I didn't want a 15" screen (my PowerBook was 12") and partly because I didn't want to spend a ton. Well I'm typing on my PowerBook right now as I had to send in my MacBook after some things went wrong. The exhaust fan is rattling, the hard drive was having really weird problems, and the white plastic case (which must be manufactured by Mattel) was developing hairline cracking. Now I understand that sometimes people get faulty components, but the case cracking was unacceptable. Furthermore their tech support (which I never had to deal with with my PowerBook) was terrible. You can only call their customer support for 90 days after buying it, and after being thrown around for a bit I drove to an Apple Store where you apparently have to make an appointment to get your laptop fixed. I finally called them again and told them to send me a box to send it to them. Between school, work, and a dying car it was rather infuriating to say the least.
Perhaps the MacBook Pros are better, I don't know. But one thing is for sure, Apple has lost my business. I may prefer OSX for what I do but I'd rather make my own linux distro than buy another product from Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
My comment was not only to the quality but also Apple's lack of response to options. Their
Sounds like he's been reading slashdot... (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally I think the Macbook Air may sell well, because Apple's proven they can get users to suffer through all kinds of hardware deficiencies to get their software.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not my cup of tea, but if I spent most of my time in airports, shuttling between offices, I might look at it rather seriously
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem with the Air is that I don't know how I'd install XP on it, and I need XP for proper MS Office utils.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The MacBook Air is essentially a little over priced and a little ahead of its time. I wouldn't be surprised if this product sells well in Japan, since they have a very different mentality towards design and cost.
3G (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing I like about the iPhone is while it does have a lot of apps, all of them were made for a phone. MMS is stupid not having, but I knew that when I purchased it. Hopefully it's just a firmware update.
Overall, it's a pretty good phone and I dont regret buying it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I do love the iPhone's interface, but I don't see the point of having a Ferrari's dashboard on a Fiat Punto. I'd rather have it the other way round
Re: (Score:2)
One of the reasons that I'm almost decided on buying an iPhone as soon as a 3G version comes out (and given that there's now a 16GB version) is that I already own an iPod Touch, and absolutely love it - but it frustrates me that when I'm out and about a lot of the features become useless due to the lack of any WiFi networks available.
My boss has a Nokia N810 and an N95 (the original, not the 8GB). The N810 automatically detects the N95's presence and will use its 3G connection over Bluetooth with the min
Dumped on AppleTV ? (Score:2)
Woz's notebook is already here... (Score:5, Insightful)
And of course everyone wants 3G on the iPhone. Judging from the sales, it's not a fatal flaw.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Looking at the iPhon
Ironically. . . (Score:5, Informative)
Quote: "[Jobs] calls me and he says he doesn't like something that I was reputed to have said. But he gets it out of context. A reporter's seized on a comment and strung along with that. I'm very positive on Apple, but I'll also point out things that could be better, or aren't the way I'd like them to be."
Re:Ironically. . . (Score:4, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Apple's biggest mistake with the iPhone (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait, you actually bought that garbage about needing the SDK restrictions in order to ensure network security? In spite of the fact that Nokia, Sony Ericsson, RIM, and all the WinCE handset makers have open SDKs which don't require application signing?
Re: (Score:2)
Yea and Symbian is a great OS to program within, The WiFi capabilities of the other smart phones are up-to-par, the other smartphones have a growing market share, everyone loves their UI... oh wait scratch that...
Never the twain shall meet (Score:3, Insightful)
They aren't even in the same class. Android (WHEN we even get a phone that supports it) will be great in bringing a better standardized platform to low-end phones. But the necessity to be adaptable for every possible kind of hardware hamstrings Android in comparison to a more focused phone that is free to pair hardware and software UI advancements, that will take place in higher end phones (not just the iPhone or phones from Appl
Make Air Cheaper (Score:3, Insightful)
Truth hurts, don't it? (Score:2)
I agree with him... Air is just hot air, and the iPhone without 3G data connectivity is reprehensible.
Good Thing Woz Doesn't Post to Slashdot (Score:2, Insightful)
Woz: Always the engineer (Score:3, Insightful)
Bathroom Humor (Score:2, Funny)
It's funny (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Do you actually read
Air Sold Out (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Woz (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is why I understand Woz not seeing where the Air will fit in today's market. It's not quite a part of his skillset. He's still a genius.
bad headline (Score:3, Interesting)
not sour grapes... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"Still invested in" really means nothing.
Re:Sour Grapes (Score:4, Informative)
FTA: Wozniak, who has moved on to new ventures since Apple but is still an employee and shareholder...
I would say that he is earning off of these products.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Cut the guy some slack. For some reason, people whose last name ends in "-ak", are just incapable of understanding the marketing side of Apple products. (Ya, I'm, lookin' at you John C.)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
I also think it's funny because... what the hell is Woz doing these days? Maybe someone knows of something, but I doubt he's released anything recently that's enjoyed the sort of success that the iPod has. So even if he totally hates Apple's current lineup, so what? Let me know when someone relevant has an opinion.
Just a quick note ... (Score:4, Informative)
The p-133's weren't first-gen by a long shot.
The 1st-gen Pentiums were P5 (Intel product 80501/ 80500) - 66 and 60 mhz (the 60mhz chips were those that couldn't pass QC at full speed). - .80 micron process. Your p5-133 is either a P54CS or (if its a lappy) a P55C. You skipped both the original P5 and the P54C.
Good thing too - the original P5 was expensive, and slowwwww compared to an AMD 486-120.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You should consider the Nokia e90 Communicator. Though the price tag is a bit high, personally I think it kicks the crap out of the iPhone in features. It also lacks 3G in the US, but only because it uses a different frequency band.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So, Wozniak tells it like it is, that Jobs has made some bad choices, and the world explodes?
Actually, Wozniak and Jobs just have a very different point of view. Wozniak is a man who can produce technology. Jobs cannot do anything himself, but he can force a company to create a product that customers want. These are very, very different qualities. It will happen very often that something that Apple comes out with is not optimal from Wozniak's point of view. Like the Edge vs. 3G thing: From Wozniak's point of view, Edge is hugely inferior to 3G. From Jobs' point of view, Edge is technologically 90