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133 comments

New Apple User (5, Interesting)

rokzy (687636) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391259)

I just got my first Mac, an iBook G4, and have been amazed by it so far. the level of integration is astounding. everything Just Works(tm) and also Plays Nice(tm). for example, everything can be voice-controlled, and the voice control actually works and doesn't need training, and when I install a new app ("Firefox") it automagically understand that app.

Having seen the Macworld Keynote, Tiger looks very good. I'm mostly interested in Dashboard. Seems like a good step forward (I love Expose). Spotlight also seems great, though the number of times I actually use a local search is tiny.

Apple keeps getting better and genuinely innovating, whereas MS seems to just buy, rebrand, then move on when it's Good Enough(tm). I'm sorry if that sounds flamebait, but it's The Truth(tm).

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11391607)

The Truth... [macobserver.com]

Re:New Apple User (4, Insightful)

rritterson (588983) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391687)

You just don't get the point do you?

Apple's business model isn't built on driving up the highest market share possible. If they wanted to do that, they would have switched to x86 long ago.

They aren't trying to sell the most computer at the lowest price- they are trying to sell the best computers at a reasonable price.

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11391782)

You're right, I don't get it - I don't get why declining market share is a good thing for a company you want to survive or how it maintains its relevance?

Re:New Apple User (4, Insightful)

MattHaffner (101554) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392089)

You're right, I don't get it - I don't get why declining market share is a good thing for a company you want to survive or how it maintains its relevance?

World dominance is not required for a company to make money. And that's all a company exists to do, really, in the purest sense, and certainly at this size or larger: make money for the owner/shareholders. The market has grown by leaps and bounds while the market "share" may have been declining. That means Apple still is selling more units year-over-year. And the market as a whole may be misleading. Apple from time to time focuses on certain sectors of the market. Are they really declining in every sector? I'm not so sure. In my little market space of academic science, I can tell you without even doing a head count that they have made a serious rebound in the last few years. Windows here has become a platform only of personal choice, not of need. OS X and Linux dominate our department (and I dare say our field).

IANAFA, but the 90's did serious harm to Apple. It's taken a long times for things to stabilize and turn around. But. They did so even before the iPod took off with OS X, the Ti PowerBook, and the seamless G5 migration (at least).

It doesn't take a BS in business to BS to figure out that after the last year or so of financials, Apple is not going to have problems surviving in the short term or being relevant.

It doesn't take a BS in marketing to BS that when Apple's "competitors" are much more frequently talking about Apple technologies more and more in their own talking points and press responses to know that those with big shares are taking serious notice, if only behind closed doors--even if it's blowing off the relevance, saying there's nothing new, or giving us a load of BS about "choice".

You keep focusing on that market share. Someone's been concerned for the last 10 years about it. In the meantime, "the rest of us" will go about our business enjoying a kick-ass platform. And I do mean enjoy.

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11394661)

Has the Tiger OS a port of OpenOffice 1.1.4 over Aqua?

Obviously no, it's really very bad!!!

Re:New Apple User (1)

Branka96 (628759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396388)

Apple sold 1,377,000 computers in Q1-2000. They just announced their Q1-2005 numbers. They sold 1,046,000 computers in that quater. That is a decline in absolute numbers by 24% over 5 years.

Re:New Apple User (3, Insightful)

SteeldrivingJon (842919) | more than 9 years ago | (#11394035)


You need up to date information. [nwsource.com]

"Note the trend in Mac shipments, particularly the big increase in the most recent quarter."

Mac shipments have been trending upwards over the last 8 quarters. From 711,000 in Q12003, to 1,046,000 Macs sold in Q4 2004. A sizable jump there in Q4, from 836,000 in Q304.

Market share is not all its cracked up to be.

IBM has about 8.6% market share. Unfortunately, even that wasn't enough - they lost money on their PC business for the last three years, so they bailed out and sold it to Lenovo.

I'd much rather have Apple at 1.9% market share, profitable, growing, and influential, than at 8.6% market share, losing money, and bailing out.

As a NeXT/Cocoa programmer, I'm quite happy to see that Apple has sold about 6.6 million Macs (fast, OS X-running Macs) in the last two years, and even more happy that that figure will likely grow even faster in 2005.

Re:New Apple User (4, Interesting)

rritterson (588983) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391661)

I use a Mac, so don't take me as a MS Fanboy, but:

WindowsXP has a built in speech engine. It doesn't need training to understand commands, but you do have to train it to do dictation. I assume any program can use the API, but I only know of one set of programs that do: MS Office.

Dashboard is almost a direct rip off of a third party app, but I forget what it's called.

Desktop search was supposed to be part of WinFS, which MS announced about a year ago. You can't call apple the innovator here, just the fastest-to-market.

I think the true advatages of going with Apple are:

-that OSX gets faster with each version, *on the same hardware*. Think Longhorn will run faster than XP on my P3 machine?

-expose. It works just like you'd expect it to. It's faster to pick out a safari window on a collage of thumbnailed windows than it is from a vertical text list of the window titles (a la XP).

-the .app packaging format. The icon is the entire app. Just drag it to the trash to uninstall it. No registry fragments left behind.

-ability to run as unprivledged. If i need to change a system setting, it will automatically prompt for the admin password. I can also use su and sudo when I need to. (Linux has this too)

-the BSD underbelly. I can use the great GUI to do what I need with a few clicks, but there are some things i just can't do without a terminal. Having rsync, ssh, sftp, cron, etc available to me is great. Unlike Linux, I don't feel like I have to use the terminal unless I want to.

Re:New Apple User (4, Interesting)

WMD_88 (843388) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391708)

Desktop search was supposed to be part of WinFS, which MS announced about a year ago. You can't call apple the innovator here, just the fastest-to-market.

Spotlight has been in developement a few years. Well before the MS announcement. In fact, fragments of it were in OS 9.

You are, however, correct about Dashboard and the speech thing.

Re:New Apple User (3, Insightful)

JQuick (411434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391978)

Actually desktop widgets were part of the old MacOS. They were not re-implemented in earlier Macos X implementations.

A third party developer wrote Konfabulator which enabled users create and run JavaScript applets. He called them widgets too.

Is Dashboard a knock-off? Apple did introduce desktop widgets first. And their re-introduction and design makes sense. With WebKit and Java as integral parts of the base OS: css, html, and javascript make the most sense, and of course they will still call them widgets.

The fact that Konfabulator called them widgets is a knock-off of Apple's original widgets. The fact that the widgets in javascript makes some people suspicious that Apple stole the idea.

I don't know the principles on either side, so cannot say definitively what happened. I just think bald claims that Apple stole the idea are perhaps overstated.

Re:New Apple User (1)

Bastian (66383) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392434)

I assume the desktop widgets you speak of were in Mac OS classic, along with a lot of other MacOS features that haven't been re-introduced until recently.

If that is the case, how far back do they go? Do they predate the BeOS system, where you could literally drag widgets from one application to a container? It wasn't as configurable as, say, Konfabulator, but the ease-of-use for the end user was excellent. You could, for example, put a Google Search control on your desktop (or in a container window full of these widgets, etc.) by going to Google in the web browser, pressing a keyboard command to display widget anchor points, draggin the anchor point for the browser window's display view to wherever you want it, and resizing it to fit the search too. No programming needed. =D

Re:New Apple User (3, Informative)

quasipunk guy (88280) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392563)

They date back to the original development of the Macintosh. That is, they predate everything outside of Xerox PARC.

Re:New Apple User (5, Insightful)

reynhout (89071) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393192)

Apple introduced Desktop Accessories in 1984. At the time, MacOS (then just called the "System") wasn't multitasking, so DAs were a way to run "something else" without closing your running application.

Some examples: Calculator, Alarm Clock (later, the clock moved to the menu bar), Key Caps (so you could find all the non-standard keyboard characters like the Yen symbol, etc), Puzzle, Scrapbook (like multiple, persistent copy buffers), Notepad (like Stickies), Chooser (to select printers and networks), etc. Yup, 1984.

They all lived under the Apple menu, and could be used at any time. They required some unusual constraints to WRITE, however...but Apple provided some decent sample code and shareware developers wrote hundreds more of them.

After MacOS became preemptively multitasking, the only reason DAs stuck around is that users expected them. There was no longer a good reason to code within the DA frameworks, (and by then you could put any app you wanted into the Apple menu, so that was no longer unique..)

Dashboard is not a knock-off. It's a reintroduction of Apple's own good idea from twenty years ago. As for the naming choice -- well, I think it's dumb...but it doesn't make sense to claim that that's stolen either. There is no more generic term for a small, useful thing. Widgets will be more powerful than DAs and easier to write, but that's a function of the intervening time, not stolen inspiration.

Dashboard is also interesting because the applets (see?) are like Desk Accessories, but the use model appears to be Apple's first admission that virtual desktops might be a GOOD IDEA that users are capable of understanding (when presented in a very animated-so-you-know-whats-happening-at-all-times kind of way). That's a big step for Apple HIG!

Next stop, multi-button mouses, STANDARD!

I only worry that with Expose and Dashboard, Apple might decide that users are all tapped out in the weird-things-that-happen-to-my-desktop department and never implement virtual desktops themselves.

(Though I'm pretty happy with Virtue. Look it up on version tracker.)

Re:New Apple User (1)

topham (32406) | more than 9 years ago | (#11394745)


It's a knock-off, just like a Rolex is a knock-off of it's cheaper cousins, the Rolex clone.

I laugh whenever I see people discussing Konfabulator, looking over how it is implemented, and how Dashboard is implemented under Tiger is like calling a Porche a knockoff of a 1970's Honda Civic.

They may look similar, but they are not the same thing.

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11391833)

vertical text list of the window titles (a la XP)

What are you referring to? Task manager or something?

I switch apps with alt-tab or the taskbar, neither has a vertical list of text (unless you move the taskbar to the left or right edge and ignore the icons).

Re:New Apple User (1)

edalytical (671270) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391877)

I think I have used XP once, although maybe twice. When IE or some other program has lots of windows open the little taskbar button will group together clicking on it will produce a menu (vertical list of text).

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392276)

Ah... I see. I turn that off (I also "turn off" IE).

Re:New Apple User (4, Insightful)

larkost (79011) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391968)

Just a couple of comments:

Apple first showed Spotlight last June, and if you look at it you will see that it is really an extension of an old Copland technology (the project that was started to originally replace System 7.5) that came out in System 8.6 under the TwinTurbo codename (text summarizing and indexing of the hard drive). And if you are really stretching you can find glimmers of this in the marketing buzz for Microsofts Cairo (large parts of which made it into Win95 and Win98). In other words, this is not a new idea... so making it work (and well) is the only thing that counts. We are way beyond the point where anyone can claim that they thought of it first.

I don't think that Microsoft's speech recognition does dictation. I think it is just like the speech recognition that has also been built into MacOS since either MacOS 7.5 or 8: very limited commands that are a big drain on the processor, and you have to repeat yourself a lot. Nothing to see here...

And on the Dashboard comment... You are thinking of Konfabulator, and that borrowed its idea from Apple's desk accessories, which borrowed its idea from a demo at Xerox PARC (the one Apple paid for the ideas with stock). And the more you compare how the two system work, the less they look like each other. Dashboard widgets are a special form of html page with a few extra javascript hooks that live in a special environment. Konfabulator scripts are another (heavyweight) program that runs in its own special interpreter with its own language. Konfabulator was a neat idea, but the implementation sucked. Apple just extended the browser and came up with their own twists on the idea. The truth be told, Dashboard has more in common with Mozilla/Firefox's XUL than Konfabulator (and it should, since Dave Hyatt was a major mover behind both).

TwinTurbo? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392754)

"Apple first showed Spotlight last June, and if you look at it you will see that it is really an extension of an old Copland technology (the project that was started to originally replace System 7.5) that came out in System 8.6 under the TwinTurbo codename (text summarizing and indexing of the hard drive)." TwinTurbo? I thought it was V-Twin. http://www.stevenberlinjohnson.com/movabletype/arc hives/000179.html [stevenberlinjohnson.com]

Re:New Apple User (2, Informative)

dobber (160548) | more than 9 years ago | (#11395019)

I wasn't following the Mac world in the Copland days, but I do believe Apple now employs Dominic Giampaolo, who implemented the Be File System of BeOS. BFS contained a lot of what Spotlight looks to be. All the basics where there, although I think Spotlight has some different implementation decisions as they didn't rewrite the file system from scratch.

I've been waiting for something like this ever since I heard they picked up Dominic. BFS was amazing. Live queries on all your data, and ever so quick. I especially liked creating virtual folders for my email -- they were just persistent queries on the file system.

Anyone interested should check out Dominic's book Practical File System Design with the Be File System [amazon.com] it's a great read.

Re:New Apple User (2, Informative)

dobber (160548) | more than 9 years ago | (#11395133)

Oops, just checked and found Dominic's homepage [nobius.org] . He is on the Spotlight team, and his book is now available as a PDF [nobius.org] .

I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan boy (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392027)

- that OSX gets faster with each version, *on the same hardware*. Think Longhorn will run faster than XP on my P3 machine?

Probably not - because MS won't be releasing a poorly-optimized beta product for $129, and charge $129 for several subsequent bug fixes and much needed code optimizations.

It would be more correct to say that later versions of OS-X run less slowly than the previous one, and you're finally seeing a polished OS - albeit after a bit more money than you should have, if you had jumped in with OS-X.0. Apple's playing catch-up with their OS optimizations, not finding new and magical ways to make the hardware do the impossible.

I would count this as a disadvantage - they release stuff before it's finished, and force you to upgrade by making most of the libraries marginally incompatible so that oops, this only runs on 10.2 and up - soon 10.3 will be the price of entry. They keep trying to scuttle security patches for "old" versions (AKA less than a year old) to force people to upgrade too.

Say it's more 'elegant,' or you enjoy using it more, but these speed ups are merely Apple un-fucking things they should have fixed in the first place.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392188)

I would count this as a disadvantage - they release stuff before it's finish

Like Microsoft hasn't been doing this all along?? They release the bug-filled product, then months later (at best) release a service pack to take car of the bugs that they let the users find for them instead of doing thier job right in the first place.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392294)

Absolutely... but you don't have to pay for that update.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (1)

aristotle-dude (626586) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392314)

You don't have to pay for 10.3.x updates (service packs) either.

Did Apple charge for the upgrade from 10.2 to 10.3? Yes. Did MSFT charge for the update from NT 5.0 (Windows 200 Pro) to 5.1 (XP)? Yes.

Stop trolling and sign up for an account coward.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392543)

ROTFLMAO! Forget about OS-X.0 original purchase and OS-X.2 upgrade? Forget that XP has been continuously updated for free since 2001? Forget that even Win2K is still kept current for FREE as well?

Face it, Apple has a $129/year subscription fee for bug fixes and security patches. MS provides them for free, and they usually release well optimized builds in the first place. Less eye candy? Perhaps. Less anti-aliased fonts and fewer cheesy non-value-added animations? Probably.

Unless you'd like to agree that 10.2 just barely caught up to Windows 2000 (released ~2 years earlier, BTW), and 10.3 was equivalent to XP (same head start for MS)....then you might have a point. :) You bold, non-coward troll, you.

"+5, pro-Apple troll" moderation.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (1)

Alan Partridge (516639) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396999)

Hang on - I paid £29 for the OSX public Beta (IIRC) then £25 for the .0 version, then £69 for 10.2 and £69 for 10.3. So that's around £192 over, what, 4 years? A copy of Windows would have run me around £225 for a full copy and then another £100ish for an XP Pro upgrade over the same period.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (4, Insightful)

JQuick (411434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392640)

I would count this as a disadvantage - they release stuff before it's finished, and force you to upgrade by making most of the libraries marginally incompatible so that oops, this only runs on 10.2 and up - soon 10.3 will be the price of entry. They keep trying to scuttle security patches for "old" versions (AKA less than a year old) to force people to upgrade too.


Your statements are patently false.

Situations where X only runs on 10.2 and up, or Y only runs on 10.3 and up result from adding new functionality, not from breaking old functionality. Frameworks in Macos X support multiple simultaneous versions without conflict.

The reason that so many new packages require new versions of the OS is that the development tools and libraries are improving. Targeting 10.1 or 10.2 requires that developers forgo functionality which can dramatically reduce their effort. For instance using Cocoa Bindings (introduced in Panther) a developer can avoid writing much common code. The authors of Delicious Library say that when they first read about Cocoa Bindings they decided to give it a try:

"We rewrote everything in a day or two--I think we deleted over a thousand lines of code that just wasn't needed any more.


WebKit, Array Controllers, and scores of other new objects have been introduced over the past few years. In each case the general result is deriving more functionality out of far less code.

This is not the result of Apple un-fucking things. This is the result of Apple producing software that improves the system by adding new functionality that is easier for both developers and end-users.

Apple typically releases free updates and security patches for several years. Jaguar (10.2) came out in 2002, the last major upgrade 10.2.8 was released in mid 2003, I see that 10.2.8 was still covered by the security update several weeks ago.

It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Re:I'd be more inclined to call you an Apple fan b (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393589)

Not to mention the fact that Apple provides weak binding (at least for Cocoa apps - I've avoided Carbon as best I can), which allow the same code to run on 10.2 and 10.3, with features only present in 10.3 simply not working.

Note: The above paragraph is an oversimplification.

Re:New Apple User (1)

BorgCopyeditor (590345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392216)

the .app packaging format. The icon is the entire app. Just drag it to the trash to uninstall it. No registry fragments left behind.

No, but the app may well put things in /Library/Application Support or /Library/Frameworks or preferences folders, etc. Still, it's not hard to find those things, since they're usually just files in folders named after the apps or parent company.

Re:New Apple User (1)

Peter Cooper (660482) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392405)

Desktop search was supposed to be part of WinFS, which MS announced about a year ago. You can't call apple the innovator here, just the fastest-to-market.

Using that logic, Duke Nukem Forever is the most innovative FPS. Of course, we haven't seen it yet, but all the bold claims they made were waaaaay before Doom 3 and Halflife 2 were announced!

Re:New Apple User (1)

Gogo Dodo (129808) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392539)

Dashboard is almost a direct rip off of a third party app, but I forget what it's called.

You're thinking of Konfabulator. Dashboard is not a rip off of Konfabulator. I suggest you go read this essay/blog/whatever on Dashboard vs. Konfabulator [daringfireball.net] .

Re:New Apple User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392923)

Dashboard is almost a direct rip off of a third party app, but I forget what it's called

Konfibulator but no Dashboard isn't really a ripof and tekniques for this was found in NeXT allready so it's not a real ripof but most surly they have inspired each other. The principals of spotlight was developed by apple in the -80,-90s and it's just a big questionmark for me why it wasn't integrated in MacOS earlier. M$ have no idea of how files should be found in their system. Spotlight engine u can find in iTunes allready. Spotlight is just bringing it to system level.

Re:New Apple User (2, Interesting)

Pyrometer (106089) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393013)

-the .app packaging format. The icon is the entire app. Just drag it to the trash to uninstall it. No registry fragments left behind.

Not quite true as the 'Library' settings are still left in either the 'System' level library or the 'Users' level library depending on the application. What I would really like to see (and I have just started dipping my hand in development on Mac OS X) is, say an applescript in the .app folder that would detect being moved to the Trash and prompt the user to clean-up the applications settings etc. Does anyone know if this is possible?

Re:New Apple User (1)

Smitty825 (114634) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397271)

It seems that this would be possible if there was a universally-supported framework. Off the top of my head:

First, some sort of a general-framework applescript would need to be written and attached to the trash as a "Folder Action", which is run everytime the folder is modified. This script would need to do nothing for most filetypes, but when it detects the "App" bundle, it should offer to remove preferences

Secondly, each app would need a script (or other executable program) that the Folder Action in the trash calls on each App Bundle. That script would be responsible for removing the preference files that the app creates

However, this solution won't remove all of the preferences it creates for each user on the system. (Especially those not logged on using a File-Vault Home Directory)

Re:New Apple User (1)

danigiri (310827) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396980)

"Desktop search was supposed to be part of WinFS, which MS announced about a year ago. You can't call apple the innovator here, just the fastest-to-market."

Man, man, man. I can't believe you fall for this.

Time-to-market is the thing. If you believe that MS or any other company that preannounces anything is the one that will bring it to market first or is the real innovator, you amaze me. For instance, MS has used this tactic over and over, before any developer has written any single line of code they "announce" products "coming out soon". This has the effect of holding buyer's purses and stiffling competition (think XBox, etc.).

Lemme announce to the world: "I am working on a Linux kernel patch that will allow any existing unmodified apps to cluster seamlessy across net nodes, across CPU's, transcompile on the fly between processor architectures and be fault tolerant. Performance gains will be enormous and unmodified apps will gain 90% efficiency per node immediately".

There I have "preannounced" it, but that does not turn me into one of the greatest computer scientists, innovators and kernel hackers of all time. Time-to-market and ability-to-market is key. Maybe I'd give a try in writing the patch, but it would take me decades to write (if ever completed) and most possibly other more capable people will release less ambitious distributed computing patches much earlier. The would be the innovators, not me.

Best, DaNi++

Re:New Apple User (1)

bodrell (665409) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391937)

First, let me get a grammar point out of the way:

Having seen the Macworld Keynote, Tiger looks very good.

It was you that saw the Keynote, not the Tiger. How about: Having seen the Macworld Keynote, I thought Tiger looks very good.

Anyway, you say you like the way Dashboard looks. I like the way that Core Image [apple.com] looks. I'll bet we see an Aqua-native photo editor better than the Gimp in short time.

Re:New Apple User (2, Funny)

WzDD (23061) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392065)

If you're going to correct someone's grammar, you could at least keep your tenses straight. "I thought tiger looked very good". Or you could make it all present tense and write "I think Tiger looks very good". Alternatively, if you really want to keep that last past present-tense you could quote it and write something like, "Watching the Macworld keynote, I thought 'Tiger looks very good'". But then you start to sound pedantic and silly. Oh, wait...

Re:New Apple User (1)

brainstyle (752879) | more than 9 years ago | (#11395257)

Alternatively, if you really want to keep that last past present-tense you could quote it and write something like, "Watching the Macworld keynote, I thought 'Tiger looks very good'".

You know, you really should have a comma after the word 'thought.' And I won't even get into where your period should be placed at the end of the sentence.

Next stop: Grammar Rodeo!

no comments on core image? (1)

bodrell (665409) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396685)

The bit about grammar was only a side note. Jesus, I appreciate it when someone points out where my syntax is unclear. But maybe everyone else thinks their grammar is immaculate. All I wanted to do was point out the error, suggest a change that would make the sentence more comprehensible, and move on.

I think the subject-verb agreement is much more important than keeping all the tenses straight. Tiger still "looks good" even if it "looked good" at the Macworld keynote. Would you have such a problem with the tense agreement if I said that I saw a woman yesterday and that I thought she looks good?

And more importantly, what do you think about Core Image? Gimp killer or not?

Re:New Apple User (1)

Moofie (22272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392787)

RIght, your grammar flame totally clears up the ambiguity in that sentence. I had no idea that the person who wrote the sentence was actually expressing the thought. I was thinking he might be channeling Richard Pryor or something.

But I've got you to thank, Mr. Ambiguity Cop!

Jesus.

Re:New Apple User (1)

Spydr (90990) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392443)

it's not just a search tool...

it's partially replacing appls like Launchbar - you can use spotlight to launch apps and open files...

just hit f5 (or remap it to command+space), type in the first few chars of your app, highlight it and hit enter. no more flipping through folders to find your apps and files any more.

it's not quite as full featured as launchbar or quicksilver, but i think that's definitely the direction apple is moving with spotlight.

What about Java 1.5? (2, Interesting)

skybrian (8681) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391310)

It's interesting that there's no mention of Java 1.5, even though it's in the developer preview. Maybe the Java upgrade will slip to 10.4.1?

Re:What about Java 1.5? (1)

OmniVector (569062) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391512)

it will probably roll out with the release. get ready for some tiger on tiger action!

Re:What about Java 1.5? (1)

burns210 (572621) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391672)

Ha ha ha. You are so clever [slashdot.org] it kills me.

Re:What about Java 1.5? (1)

BorgCopyeditor (590345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392260)

Thanks. I was just about to jump in and demand credit, but I didn't want to sound catty.

Re:What about Java 1.5? (1)

burns210 (572621) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393224)

Glad to do my part. I knew I had heard that joke somewhere. Just took a quick google search.

Re:What about Java 1.5? (1)

BorgCopyeditor (590345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393616)

It was indeed a claws of my own invention, so it was purrfectly gentlemanly of you to make note of it. Thanks again fur everything.

a converted developer (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11391367)

i have two nice dells and dual 18" flat panel monitors. i used to think i had a really kick ass system. windows XP, btw.

i got a g4 powerbook in november.

my PC's are dormant. all my development is done on the mac. i just love using it.

i can't wait for tiger.

now i know why there are apple fanatics.

Re:it gets worse (4, Interesting)

Bastian (66383) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392471)

I was similarly converted to Apple, but I keep a linux box around and use it quite frequently. But thanks to the Mac, I now do everything in GNUStep.

I'm actually amazed that OS X hasn't spurred a renaissance for GNUStep. I figured all the "I like MacOS, but I don't want to pay for Apple hardware" weenies would be hard at work getting around this by using GNUStep as a basis for their Free take-off of OS X instead of sticking with Gnome and KDE (both of which are just Free take-off of Windows in my book).

Re:it gets worse (1)

andrewski (113600) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393121)

Gnome and KDE are not nearly as nice to develop for as Gnustep, and they are both in constant states of revision.

Gnustep is almost done implementing an open specification that's 10 years old(Openstep), and they're also tracking parts of Apple's Cocoa. The language is the same, but the libraries are different. It is possible to compile the same code on both systems, if it's written for portability.

Re:it gets worse (2, Insightful)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393198)

"I like MacOS, but I don't want to pay for Apple hardware"

I'm guessing that much of that angst has be channeled into PearPC [sourceforge.net]

I agree with your sentiment, but I think that Gnome and KDE are too well entrenched for GNUstep to have much of an impact. There's Simply GNUstep [simplygnustep.com] of course...

But I suspect GNUstep is tarnished for several reasons.

Cocoa is a minority platform with even fewer open source developers. And how many people know objective-c? The Mac has a long history of quality shareware; on the whole the idea of giving code away for free never caught on as with Linux. Those with skills in such a niche area are no doubt finding lucrative opportunities to sell their spare-time efforts! :)

Providing a clean-room implementation of technologies is dependant on their being killer-apps to run.
In the case of haiku, it's implementing a much cherished discontinued platform.
In the case of wine, it's running Windows apps without Windows.
In the case of classpath, it's implementing a JVM without Sun's restrictions and support on every platform.

In each case these projects aim to provide API AND binary compatibility. Achieving binary compatibility with OSX would be comparatively more difficult given that Cocoa is one of a number of technologies which might also need to be emulated.

Plus, most of us do without the niceties of OSX. Those priveleged few that do have Macs are satisfied with their choice of hardware & software, so to re-implement the wheel isn't a high priority.

Finally are there any killer opensource Cocoa apps whose equivalents don't exists in the X11 world? For example, if Apple were to donate the rest of the Safari code to the community, as Netscape did with Mozilla, it would provide a tremendous example of a large-scale Cocoa app. This would perhaps attract developers to the platform. Plus, it might spur people on to implement the missing bits in GNUstep.

Re:it gets worse (1)

SteeldrivingJon (842919) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393965)

"And how many people know objective-c?"

It takes less time to learn ObjC than it takes to learn Java.

And that difference is going to get bigger as Java adds features (and complexity).

It also takes less time to learn ObjC than it takes to learn C#.

There really isn't much of it to learn.

Re:it gets worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11396227)

ObjC seems like a cool language but when you actually try to do some programming with it, it is slow compared to C or C++. Sure it is fast compared to Java, but that is no surprise because Java isn't known for performance.

Re:it gets worse (1)

Bastian (66383) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396770)

it is slow compared to C or C++

What'd you expect from a language that is pseudodynamically typed, uses a redirectable message passing architecture for calling object methods, and allows for addition of new methods to existing objects (that's objects, not just classes) at run-time?

Face it, every language feature comes at a price. C's speed at run-time comes at the price of development speed. ObjC's dynamic features come at the cost of run-time speed.

For most applications, the speed difference is barely even noticeable, so unless you're talking about the relative merits of C, C++, and ObjC for writing a process scheduler or a scientific library or an embedded app or something, I fail to see why the speed argument matters in this case. It's basically saying, "I'll spend potentially an extra few hours or days developing my app to shave a few milliseconds off the program's execution time and a few bytes off its memory consumption."

But personally, I don't think that's a good trade, so I'm going to stick with my ObjC and perl and bash scripts and such.

Re:it gets worse (1)

SteeldrivingJon (842919) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397517)


If speed is a problem, profile it, locate the specific problem sites, and use C or C++ for those parts.

You can do that, without any sort of slow JNI hackery. Objective-C plays nice with its peers.

Re:it gets worse (2, Interesting)

Skinny Rav (181822) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393436)

I was similarly converted to Apple, but I keep a linux box around and use it quite frequently. But thanks to the Mac, I now do everything in GNUStep.


I'm actually amazed that OS X hasn't spurred a renaissance for GNUStep.


Well, I am, as you wrote it, "a weenie" - I don't want to pay my 2 months salary for a freaking computer (I live in Poland and in fact my income is quite above average), so I only dream about having a Mac. Well, now with Mac Mini and new prices of iBooks I started to count money maybe to buy one, but back to the point:

I am a long Wmaker user and I tried GNUStep few times, but it simply doesn't work for me. I always do everything the wrong way there, and the menu in the upper left corner just annoys me. Mail.app (or what is it called) reminds me of a mailer program from CDE somewhere in the late nineties. And the whole thing is just ugly. OK, icons are nice, but widgets are terrible: scroll bars, radio button and so on...

Anyway, so far it was always like this: new GNUStep version announcement, apt-get install gnustep, a week or two of futile attempts to like it, apt-get remove gnustep and back to my combo of wmaker/sylpheed/firefox (now replaced by kde 3.3).

Well, maybe not to insightful, but GNUStep has a really long road ahead to be usable to me. And no, I am not a programmer so I am not able to contribute. So maybe I should quit complaining? ;-)

But you are right, it would be nice if more of the MacOS X goodness was available to us in the cheap x86 world :-)

Raf

Re:it gets worse (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393639)

I am a long Wmaker user and I tried GNUStep few times, but it simply doesn't work for me.

I think you are confusing what GNUstep is (the s is lower case, by the way). GNUstep is not a window manager, and GNUstep is not a desktop environment. GNUstep is an implementation of a set of APIs. If you are not a developer (as you point out), it has no more relevance to you than GTK or Qt.

I always do everything the wrong way there, and the menu in the upper left corner just annoys me.

So change it. There are bundles available which will put the menu bar (on every GNUstep app) at the top of the screen, where it belongs, or at the top of a each window. These are likely to be exposed via a configuration interface soon.

And the whole thing is just ugly. OK, icons are nice, but widgets are terrible: scroll bars, radio button and so on...

Take a look at Chameleon (due for official release in the next week or two). It's a complete theme engine for GNUstep. I've seen it running with widget images extracted from OS X, and since GNUstep and OS X both have the same ancestor (OPENSTEP) you get the OS X look and feel.

GNUstep is a great development platform, and work is constantly underway to make GNUstep applications play nicer with other desktop environments (e.g. GNOME, KDE and Windows). When the GCC Objective-C team stop dragging their heels and incorporate the Objective-C++ changes, it will be easy to add a native GNUstep browser, making a pure GNUstep desktop even more possible.

Re:it gets worse (1)

Skinny Rav (181822) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393801)

I think you are confusing what GNUstep is (the s is lower case, by the way). GNUstep is not a window manager, and GNUstep is not a desktop environment. GNUstep is an implementation of a set of APIs. If you are not a developer (as you point out), it has no more relevance to you than GTK or Qt.

No, I don't confuse it. I know that GNUstep can work with different WMs (Afterstep or, I think now preferred wmaker) and I know that it is an implementation. But for the sake of convenience when I write "I tried GNUstep" I mean "I tried to use the set of official GNUstep applications, i.e. Gworkspace, GNUMail plus few additional contributed applications". And you have to agree that although usage of an API or toolkit should not matter to an enduser, in fact it does. QT apps have different feeling than GTK ones - and even themeing doesn't fully change it.

But then finally you write what is important from my point of view:

So change it. There are bundles available which will put the menu bar (on every GNUstep app) at the top of the screen, where it belongs, or at the top of a each window. These are likely to be exposed via a configuration interface soon.

and

Take a look at Chameleon (due for official release in the next week or two). It's a complete theme engine for GNUstep. I've seen it running with widget images extracted from OS X, and since GNUstep and OS X both have the same ancestor (OPENSTEP) you get the OS X look and feel.

Ok, I'll give GNUstep another try when this is released. The only remaining concern then will be: ok, menubar at the top of the screen is nice, but what about GNUstep not-aware apps? This will really make them annoying, as then they will really stick out.

Anyway, thanks for clarifications.

Raf

Automater shows promise (4, Insightful)

samdu (114873) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391368)

Of the apps listed in the FA, Automater appears to be the only one that's really interesting. The Widget thing is already available with Konfabulator and Desktop search is also available from a number of sources. This isn't to say that Apple won't make each of these better. However, I think the breakthrough, killer app is Automater. Sure, you can script events to some extent or another either with the limited capabilities of operating systems or to a greater extent with 3rd party apps, but the ability to build event scripts with XML and/or HTML sounds freakin' awesome.

Re:Automater shows promise (3, Informative)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391570)

the ability to build event scripts with XML and/or HTML sounds freakin' awesome.

I think you're mistaken. Dashboard widgets are written in HTML+JavaScript. Automator actions are written in AppleScript or Objective-C.

It's basically built on top of AppleScript, so you won't be able to do anything that can't already be done with AppleScript. Apps or functions that aren't scriptable will be inaccessable to Automator.

On the other hand, I think developers will be more prone to add scripting support now that scripting is more accessable to users, and not the pain in the ass that AppleScript typically is.

Dashboard worries me... (1)

andreMA (643885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391873)

The ability to run arbitrary shell commands worries me a bit. I can imagine that with widgets being so easy to write, people will get used to downloading the latest cute clock, RSS-parse-my-favorite-site, stock ticker, etc..

Then it only takes one to

var obj = widget.system("rm -rf ~/", null);
to ruin your whole day...

Re:Dashboard worries me... (1)

andreMA (643885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391940)

Wow. That's just fundamentally stupid. I must be reading it wrong.

Re:Dashboard worries me... (1)

aristotle-dude (626586) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392351)

Does C/C++ worry you? What about Perl or Python or Ruby?

Yes, a malicious program could nuke a home directory on "any" OS. What is your point? Are you saying users should not have control over there home folder? Come on man.

At least with OS X, the worst you can do is nuke your home folder with stupidity. You won't hose the entire system.

Why do you think Apple provides a Backup app with .MAC? Backup your home folder regularly and don't get software/widgets from untrusted sources.

Re:Dashboard worries me... (1)

andreMA (643885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392573)

Yeah, but it's the ease with which malware can we written and the (presumed) lack of caution that users might exhibit by not seeing the cute widgets as "programs" but more as "ornaments"

Re:Dashboard worries me... (1)

rjung2k (576317) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393104)

Same as with any other OS.

The easiest exploit for any malware is through the user.

Re:Dashboard worries me... (1)

clarkcox3 (194009) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397222)

How is that any worse than:
(Shell script)
#!/bin/sh
rm -rf ~/
or
(C)
#include <stdlib.h>

int main(void)
{
system("rm -rf ~/");
return 0;
}
or
(AppleScript)
do shell script "rm -rf ~/"
?

Re:Automater shows promise (1)

larkost (79011) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392047)

One correction: Automater can use units that have their functions written in AppleScript, but it is built completely in Obj-C. The AppleScript units are just like AppleScript Studio applications: an Obj-C runtime that calls over an AppleScript bridge to AppleScript functions, and then the results are returned over that bridge back into the Obj-C application framework.

Automater aware apps do not expose that functionality through AppleScript, but instead through a Obj-C API (and probably a Java one as well though the JavaBridge). AppleScriptability will not be affected by Automater-ability and vise-versa, in fact I am sad to say that AppleScriptability may suffer because developers will concentrate on Automater.

I really like Automater: it will make a lot of things really easy for end users who would not be able to do them in AppleScript, but I really wish that it had been built on top of AppleEvents (what AppleScript is built on) so that people with more experience could have used the same interface/functions through AppleScript. It is a sadly missed opportunity.

Re:Automater shows promise (1)

dr.badass (25287) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393417)

It looks like we're both half right. Apple says:

Actions that control an application to get something done. If the application is scriptable, AppleScript can be used for these types of Actions. Objective-C is a good choice if the application has a public API, such as Address Book and iChat.

Which I read to mean that it works both ways. AppleScriptable apps *are* Automator-aware. One just has to write Automator Actions to make use of them in Automator. Also, there is no single API for "Automator-Awareness" -- any functionality you expose in your app can be accessed in an Automator action.

Yes, AppleScriptability probably will suffer over time, as it sounds like the latter method would be easier to implement than the former. But I doubt that developers that have already added AppleScript support would remove it in favor of another API, unless the functionality gained was significant.

But then, I could be talking out of my ass, as I have little experience with Objective-C, and even less experience with AppleScript, and a lot of experience with talking out of my ass.

Re:Automater shows promise (1)

samdu (114873) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393073)

D'oh! My bad. I sort of perused the pages without looking that hard. The screenies for Automater didn't look all that different than the ones for Dashboard. Still, if they can manage to make scripting trivial, it's still the killer app of the ones mentioned.

Re:Automater shows promise (1)

Skibbering (787368) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397546)

It's basically built on top of AppleScript, so you won't be able to do anything that can't already be done with AppleScript. Apps or functions that aren't scriptable will be inaccessable to Automator.

If it has a UI, it's Applescript-able. Check out http://www.apple.com/applescript/uiscripting/ [apple.com] .

LISTEN YOU FUCKING CUNT (0, Flamebait)

Professor S. Brown (780963) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393367)

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME WIDGETS ARE NOT A FUCKING RIP OFF OF KONFABULATOR YOU FUCKING FUCK FUCK TWAT CUNT. Konfabulator is a series of annoying, stupid, pointless little apps that clultter up your desktop and make you go 'ooh thats pretty' for about ten minutes before you realise how irritating they are and throw the whole lot in the trash. Widgets are a series of useful apps that *dont* clutter up my desktop, a sort of virtual desktop for your utilities, if you will. Widgets are way way better than Konfabulator, and Apple had the idea first anyway, back in the 80's with Desktop Accesories. SO FUCK OFF.

Re:LISTEN YOU FUCKING CUNT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11393468)

Geez. Take a valium.

you saw missed the point of Spotlight (1)

ivano (584883) | more than 9 years ago | (#11394094)

maybe you just read the blurb and didn't see it in action. The point is that it gives instant results (like iTunes search of your library or Google suggest). All other searches give you a typical type ina few words and hit return (say like iTunes search in the iTunes music store)

importantly it also looks like fun app

ciao

PS smart folders must be one of the best things that will come out of it too...so did you actually read the write blurb??

SQLite part of OS... (1)

mattkime (8466) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391738)

I find it interesting that SQLite is part of Tiger. I'm curious as to how useful it will be. I'm sure I'd want to keep OS info away from Dev info, but I'm curious as to whether it'll replace mySQL at all.

Re:SQLite part of OS... (4, Interesting)

ZackSchil (560462) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392478)

SQLite isn't just there for spotlight. CoreData is an interesting set of tools that Apple never really publicized much. Basically, it looks like an API for storing cocoa and carbon data structures into files such that there are two copies (a la the iTunes database). One copy is XML and the other is in SQLite format. The two copies of data are kept synced by CoreData. The purpose behind this is to make an application's files extremely easy to read and manipulate from 3rd party apps but also not have to deal with the overhead of an XML file with 20,000 dictionaries.

It seems like a really cool idea and it has been working great in the iTunes codebase for some time now. Does any OS do something like this already? It seems to me like an obvious solution to a very common development problem. Should really cut down on development time.

Re:SQLite part of OS... (3, Insightful)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392537)

I find it interesting that SQLite is part of Tiger. I'm curious as to how useful it will be. I'm sure I'd want to keep OS info away from Dev info, but I'm curious as to whether it'll replace mySQL at all.

Does BDB or GDBM replace MySQL? Does XML-files replace MySQL?
SQLite is only a tiny embeddable library providing a fast SQL-interface to your data-files. It is not meant to be used as a RDBMS replacement.
In contrast to MySQL it actually does support procedures and triggers though. :)

Re:SQLite part of OS... (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 9 years ago | (#11395808)

SQLite is horrific for any kind of query. I can't see this being useful for website based data.

Core Data is my favorite new Tiger feature. (4, Interesting)

JQuick (411434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391846)

It is an addition to the Cocoa framework and to Xcode which supports a very nice object persistence layer. In a nutshell Cocoa uses the MVC (Model View Controller) design pattern. TO develop an app, one defines ones application data as model objects, build an interface of windows, widgets, etc, and provide controllers which mediate communication between the user and the data model.

In Panther, Apple introduced "Bindings" which obviated the need to actually write most controller objects. Using bindings, the developer can associate object relationships (targets, and actions) between the View and Model layers by essentially using path names. This still enables a clean isolation between the interface and the application data layers, but requires little code (or sometimes none).

In Tiger they added "Core Data". This allows the developer to describe their model data objects, and the object relationships. At run time, using this model description, the model objects are associated with serialized objects on disk in:
XML file format
binary file format
SQLite-based database format

This repository of frozen objects is lazily loaded, and only those objects which are actually required are unarchived and made live. Think NeXT EOF redux, but easier and not tied to WebObjects.

XCode is integrated with a graphical display that lets you explore the object model graph, and also graph the layout of your source code.

This stuff is very sweet. I've been playing with it off and on, and definitely miss Tiger whenever I need to boot back into Panther. (Yes, it's a legal copy. No I won't break my NDA.)

Re:Core Data is my favorite new Tiger feature. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11392014)


It looks like Tiger will be great for Cocoa developers, with many new powerful APIs covering new functionalities. And, indeed, CoreData looks very promising. I found more info about it here [cocoadev.com] .

Re:Core Data is my favorite new Tiger feature. (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392545)

EOF was never "tied" to WebObjects during the ObjC days. EOF was always available to any application interested in it's power. It was only later when we merged with Apple that it got a back seat and rerouted to WOF, specifically.

Afterall, when we pulled legacy support for Openstep 4.2 there was no need for EOF support either as a standalone.

Personally, I hope the two interns who invented EOF at NeXT, and later founded RunningStart, are working with Apple once again.

IonYz scrolls to bottom of the article... (1)

IonYz (800504) | more than 9 years ago | (#11391886)

... posted 2004-10-19. The other links are from last year as well. Hmm.

Re:IonYz scrolls to bottom of the article... (1)

Juanvaldes (544895) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393020)

yup only the automator article is new, but it's all good info that I had not seen before so I included links to them as well.

NOTE: This is not a flame or off-topic rant (1)

sydbarrett74 (74307) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392526)

It's stuff like this that shows why I run OS X instead of Linux. Whereas Linux seems hell-bent on recreating and catching up to Windows, Apple is actually innovating and living on the cutting edge with each OS X release. While there are some things that annoy me about OS X vis a vis Windows, on the whole it is a refreshingly non-'me too' operating platform.

Re:NOTE: This is not a flame or off-topic rant (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 9 years ago | (#11395885)

In all fairness to Linux at the developer and server end it is becoming way ahead of Windows. Things like usermode, are driving Linux servers to have features you generally wouldn't see outside of minicomputers and mainframes. Further because Linux is more cross platform you can develop your servers to take advantage of those features and then move to things like zSeries where the hardware is more usermode oriented.

Windows is playing around with VMware type solutions for this.

Re:NOTE: This is not a flame or off-topic rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11396640)

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/New-IBM-Apple-Ch ip-To-Run-Dual-Operating-Systems-39364.html

Re:NOTE: This is not a flame or off-topic rant (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397189)

Good point so that Linux on PPC may very well soon have some of the hardware based features as well.

I think people are underestimating spotlight... (3, Interesting)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 9 years ago | (#11392548)

Many comments seem to think that Spotlight is "just another desktop search". Ho-hum. Of course it is that, but I think what will be killer is its integration into the system. The Steve Jobs demos are cool, but they are not very focused on what I think is the real wow - Smart Folders in the Finder. I truly believe these will revolutionise the way people manage files. If you've used iTunes for any length of time you'll find the smart playlists absolutely invaluable. Having that at the Finder level will be incredible. It'll make the "recent documents" and "recent applications" menu look pretty lame. I think after a while no-one will be able to understand how the hell we managed with only fixed folders all these years.

Re:I think people are underestimating spotlight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11393730)

ex-BeOS users have been wondering that for a longish time already. Boy was it a shock moving to Linux (at least KDE has a stab at some hot-updating smart-folder functionality, but it's only in KDE apps, not across the board).

Re:I think people are underestimating spotlight... (1)

Eslyjah (245320) | more than 9 years ago | (#11396469)

It's not just Smart Folders in the Finder. Imagine shell scripting with Smart Folders. Or imagine a Dashboard gadget that provides easy access to your 10 most recent Word documents (or some other useful lookup). And accessing this technology in Cocoa will make the Finder stuff look like child's play.

Re:I think people are underestimating spotlight... (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397424)

FTA:

for i in `mdfind Tiger`
do
cp $i /Volumes/Backup/$i
done

"mdfind" is "find", except meta-data instead of file name. It will find any file containing the word "Tiger" and copy it off to a backup drive. You can replace "Tiger" with

"kMDItemPixelHeight >= 480 && kMDItemPixelWidth >= 640"
and backup any HQ video or image file.

I need this feature now!

Everything going well, does it contain this? (1)

dezzo (546052) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393000)

Everything seems to be advancing well for OSX, but ever since 10.1, I've never been able to move the mouse properly, because the acceleration is tied inseparably to the track speed - can't they not couple this together and make our lives easier. I would believe many of us are used to non-accelerated mousing from the Linux or Windows platforms. I find it difficult to nagivate in OSX cause of this. Shouldn't that count to the overall useability? I hope Tiger comes with the option of turning off the mouse acceleration.

Autovectorization? (3, Informative)

Paladeen (8688) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393206)

This stuff looks pretty nifty:

Along with improvements to the GUI, Xcode 2.0 will ship with GCC 4.0 which features a new C++ Parser and several code generation improvements including auto-vectorization. While hand-tuning Velocity Engine code can get you the maximum performance from the G4 and G5 processors, now you can have GCC do the heavy lifting for you. You'll benefit from this without any extra effort, with auto-vectorization in GCC bringing anywhere between a 4X and 14X performance improvement to code that works with arrays of data.

AltiVec support without having to write any optimized code...sounds like a winner to me.

Re:Autovectorization? (3, Interesting)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 9 years ago | (#11394419)

That's what has me tingling!

I do a lot of work requiring realistic physics simulation ( using the Open Dynamics Engine ) -- I don't have the expertise or knowledge to attempt to vectorize ODE, nor do I have the time ( since my work is *using* the engine, not writing it. ). What I *do* know is that ODE, internally, does massive vector operations on float arrays ( float[4] vectors/quaternions, float[16] matices, etc etc ) and it clearly would benefit from SIMD optimizations. The trouble is, all the people who do know how to write such optimizations are on the x86 platform...

Anyway, my simulations are heavily CPU bound, and any improvements that can be had for "free" will make me happy as a clam.

No Python with Dashboard? (0, Troll)

Nice2Cats (557310) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393258)

One thing that is worrying me about Dashboard is that the list of languages Apple says it will works with [apple.com] doesn't include Python:

Any UNIX command or script, including those written in sh, tcsh, bash, tcl, Perl, or Ruby as well as AppleScript, can be accessed from the widget object.

Is Apple just being an "insensitive clod" here, or what seems to be the problem?

Re:No Python with Dashboard? (2, Informative)

Black Noise (683584) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393596)

Any UNIX command or script seems to imply Python support to me...

Re:No Python with Dashboard? (3, Informative)

sylencer (634653) | more than 9 years ago | (#11393954)

The important part is Any UNIX command or script, the remainder are just examples. Look at the code snippet right below it, there is a standard system call, executing a command.

No problem with calling a Python script from that.

Anyone else worried (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11394916)

That with all this access to command line commands and integration to get the "full power" of the mac....that there will inevitebly be security flaws that could be exploited if a bad widget gets onto your computer somehow?

Re:Anyone else worried (2, Interesting)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 9 years ago | (#11397661)

there will inevitebly be security flaws that could be exploited if a bad widget gets onto your computer somehow

The potential exists, but in order for the widget to do damage it would have to be downloaded and installed by the user, like any other trojan horse. If the widget wants to do anything outside of your home directory, the user will get a dialogue asking for an admin password.

This will require a certain level of responsibility from users, but no more so than any compiled program.

Then again, making it all javascript-shell script friendly, on top of making it look pretty is dangerous; it makes trojans easier to write and more tempting to the victims (nobody would ever download a .sh file that claimed to output stock quotes or search Amazon.com, but they would certainly download a widget that advertised such features).

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