Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Hunts Playfair in India

michael posted more than 10 years ago | from the from-hell's-heart-i-stab-at-thee dept.

Music 782

An anonymous reader writes "A news posting at Sarovar.org says that they have to take down the 'PlayFair' program upon receiving a notice from Apple's attorneys. They are awaiting their attorneys' response. This is bad news for all those who appreciated this cool program. Let's hope that 'PlayFair' might appear in some other country now."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

A few thoughts (2, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881742)

1. The iTunes Music Store - and thus all other worthwhile online music stores that follows - would have *existed* in the first place if it wasn't for *some* DRM capability. Apple's is the most flexible, least intrusive of all other current implementations (other than no DRM at all).

2. Remember, if Apple chose to "fight the good fight" against DRM, we wouldn't have an iTunes Music Store at all. Apple put in the LEAST DRM it could get away with.

3. Whether or not the DMCA is unconstitutional is irrelevant to the fact that, at least with regard to Sourceforge, Apple used a law in existence in its favor - how can it be faulted for that?

4. With refard to Sarovar, Apple did nothing more than make with is essentially an intellectual appeal. Apple didn't "force" anyone to do anything.

5. If you don't like the iTunes Music Store license, don't buy music from it. Please, no lame arguments about "stealing" vs. "copyright infringement", and "fair use" vs "licenses I didn't sign", or "playing music **I paid for** anywhere". We all agree with you. By the way, breaking DRM isn't civil disobedience: civil disobedience involves some kind of personal sacrifice on your part - and if that personal sacrifice is going to jail and/or getting fined for violating US law, unconstitutional or no, then don't bitch about it. Publicize it, but don't bitch. THAT'S civil disobedience. And maybe it will change the law(s).

6. We all know that many here are against *any* DRM, on principle, no matter how unintrusive. That's another argument all together...should rights owners have *any* rights to protect/monitor/control their products? A huge matter, to be sure...but be that as it may, Apple tried for the best possible balance in favor of consumers, and did a pretty darn good job. Remember, too, that one DRM element is keeping iTMS purchases tied to the iPod, which is how Apple chose to deploy this service. It's their service and products; if you don't like it, don't use or buy them. It's your choice.

Re:A few thoughts (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881779)

That's a load of dingos kidneys.

Apple doesn't give two shits about the consumers or the artists. This is clearly a move to make apple the defacto standard in ALL music.

Re:A few thoughts more (3, Insightful)

adzoox (615327) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881958)

You had to post this AC because it couldn't be further from the truth.

Apple exists to serve... it does NOT serve to exist. Why push Music and Garageband? Serve a market. Why push iMovie and create iDVD? Serve a market. Why create a niche hardware item like the iSight? Serve with the BEST camera and the best solution for video conferencing. Gateway for instance - they build computers to make a profit - no innovation - nothing special - they serve to exist!

This is the REAL disadvantage to releasing programs to Windows users. It really sucks that Apple has to deal with this and the "/. mentality" that everything should be free. That's communist. Apple is capitalist. They have a solution, it's paid. You have a free solution - Kazaa /P2P!

I agree with the parent. If you don't like Apple DRM - don't try to circumvent it by HACKING IT - just do something that HAS NOT BEEN termed illegal - go buy the CD and then sell the CD back to a used store once you've ripped it. You'll come OUT WAY ahead of iTunes prices.

Do this instead (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881787)

If you don't like the iTunes Music Store license, don't buy music from it.

Better yet: buy music, and use Playfair so you can listen to it.

Apple tried for the best possible balance in favor of consumers, and did a pretty darn good job

It is a loust job. It requires a KLUDGE solution of burning and re-ripping in order to get a usable file.

It's their service and products; if you don't like it, don't use or buy them. It's your choice.

Choice #3 is the best: buy the songs and get rid of the DRM on them after you pay for them.

Re:Do this instead (5, Insightful)

MoneyT (548795) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881863)

With the exception that the terms of purchasing the songs from the iTMS as specificaly stated in the contract presented to you before you enter into the transactions was that you would not circumvent the DRM on the file.

Fine. Here is how. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881912)

"into the transactions was that you would not circumvent the DRM on the file"

Easy enough. Make a copy of the file you downloaded. Circumvent the DRM on the copy you made, while obeying the contract by leaving the DRM alone on the copy you actually bought.

Re:Do this instead (5, Interesting)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881920)

Which, of course, would only be binding in those jurisdictions where such a condition would actually be legal and enforceable. In Sweden, for example, any DRM used specifically for the purpose of hindering fair-use provisions (such as copying, media transfer and so on) are explicitly allowed to be circumvented.

Re:A few thoughts (1, Interesting)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881827)

Isn't that the same logic that abused wives use to stay with their 'loving' husband?

You must have been waiting to post that.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881845)

Or you copied it from an earlier post ;)

That was up there pretty quickly!

Re:You must have been waiting to post that.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881889)

Or he's a subscriber, and typed it up while it was in the Mysterious Future.

Re:A few thoughts (2, Insightful)

JanneM (7445) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881862)

PlayFair is perfectly legal in most jurisdictions. What we have is a large corporation throwing their legal and financial weight around to stop something that is not wrong in any way.

Re:A few thoughts (0, Interesting)

tdemark (512406) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881995)

So far, what has Apple done?

They've sent out two letter to two different organizations.

Total cost to them: Probably $300 + overnight mail fees.

I don't see how this is "throwing their legal and financial weight around".

- Tony

Re:A few thoughts (5, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882065)

This is the samething as the USA parking an aircraft carrier off a country then making a 'request' they do something. While it is a 'simple request' it is backed up by a Nuclear armed air wing and an entire carrier battle group.

Apple has a lot more resouces than most people and can make good on their threats.

Re:A few thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881876)

1. The iTunes Music Store - and thus all other worthwhile online music stores that follows...

So the several stores that were around before iTMS and that Apple ripped off the idea from don't fall under the same category? Hmm.

There are several stores with no DRM, starting with Magnatune [magnatune.com] .

hypocrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881886)

If it were Microsoft doing the same, everyone would be jumping all over them. Slashbots are pathetic.

Re:A few thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881896)

3. Whether or not the DMCA is unconstitutional is irrelevant to the fact that, at least with regard to Sourceforge, Apple used a law in existence in its favor - how can it be faulted for that?

How can they be faulted? They could choose to ignore it. Yes, they will likely lose the RIAA backing, but I really don't care personally... The public shouldn't support any RIAA backed iniatives. Support FREE music.

This music is protected by a mechanism that is not available on all platforms. It should be. This program allows you to use it anywhere you choose w/o the intermediate steps of burning to CD then re-encoding.

Re:A few thoughts (3, Interesting)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881907)

If things were different it was the Microsoft Music Store and you could download songs with the same exact DRM policy as what iTunes has now, would you still have a problem if someone released a program such as this?

Re:A few thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881949)

If things were different it was the Microsoft Music Store and you could download songs with the same exact DRM policy as what iTunes has now, would you still have a problem if someone released a program such as this?

Of course not, it's the Slashdot double standard, and Microsoft is evil you know.

Re:A few thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881957)

Yes. People out for a free ride give everyone a bad name.

Re:A few thoughts (4, Insightful)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881941)

It doesn't matter. The cat is out of the bag.

And the more Apple tries to stuff it back in, the more attention they draw to the futility or DRM and the existence of playfair.

Re:A few thoughts (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882035)

The iTunes Music Store - and thus all other worthwhile online music stores that follows - would have *existed* in the first place if it wasn't for *some* DRM capability.

If this is true, and I sincerely hope it is NOT, then perhaps online music stores shouldn't exist at all.

As of this moment we have a legal, cheap, and DRM free way to get music: buy used CDs.

Everyone here seems to only be concerned with moving forward and having online music stores as soon as possible... what they don't realize is that because of the DRM we are moving BACKWARD. All the freedoms that we HAD with regular retail don't exist with the online stores, and already music companies are starting to experiment with DRM on regular CDs.

So here is what I say: buy CDs or don't buy music at all. If you choose to use these services because they are convenient or whatever then you are just saying to the corporations: "I will take any crap that you want to give me as long as I get exactly what I want right now"

Sounds kind of childish, doesn't it?

Re:A few thoughts (1)

WARM3CH (662028) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882041)

Apple put in the LEAST DRM it could get away with.
I think it's more of a technical inefficiency and incompetence than trying to make life easier for the hackers. Really, if I use a protection/license management system for my new software and use a weak one, do you think I'm acting friendly or you think I'm just stupid?

Let's hope indeed (-1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881747)

I won't buy from ITMS unless there is something like Playfair. The DRM is a nuisance to be cleaned off of files I bought for and own to use on my own machines.

Re:Let's hope indeed (5, Informative)

whelck (683102) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881929)

How many computers do you have? You can authorize the files to be played on up to three computers, and if you have more than that, just set up a iTunes server. I have one box that has iTunes which I buy the music from. Then I just leave iTunes running all the time and I can then access the music from any computer in my house.

(you can also just burn the song to CD and rip it back as mp3...)

Preferably a country with fat pipes... (4, Informative)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881749)

...since it was getting downloaded around 5000 times a day before it got pulled. I'm sure the other project admins at Sarovar aren't sad to see it go; now they have a much more responsive server :-)

And again, if you put up a public (foo)Forge, make sure you have a Terms of Service [rubyforge.org] document to cover this sort of thing.

Re:Preferably a country with fat pipes... (1, Insightful)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881940)

5000x a day is nothing.

Let's assume the file is 500k.

That's 2.5GB a day. Not much at all. Sounds like it at first, but it isn't. That's roughly 100MB per hour, 1.5MB per minute, 0.25MB / 250Kb / 2Mbit a second. Most cable connections could support that.

Re:Preferably a country with fat pipes... (1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882040)

That's 2.5GB a day. Not much at all. Sounds like it at first, but it isn't. That's roughly 100MB per hour, 1.5MB per minute, 0.25MB / 250Kb / 2Mbit a second. Most cable connections could support that.

2Mb a second swamps a T1, and swamps most consumer connections in the USA because they can download that fast, but not upload.

Not to mention, it's highly unlikely that the downloads were distributed evenly throughout the day, so high traffic period would require bursts faster than the average. In short, you've got to be at a hosting facility to get that kind of bandwidth.

Must... never... pay... for... music!! (1, Funny)

djcatnip (551428) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881753)

sheesh.

Apple lawyers on the attack.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881757)

Big talk from a company that promised to stay away from all things music.

Re:Apple lawyers on the attack.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881904)

I hope Steve Jobs is the first one to get fired by Sir Paul McCartney when he owns the company in a few years. Maybe replace him with Ringo. ;)

P2P? (1, Interesting)

DiSKiLLeR (17651) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881761)

So its gonna be all over gnutella, winmx, etc?

If Apple keeps going after every website that hosts it, its gonna be everywhere on P2P... what are they gonna do then?

Re:P2P? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881836)

Ummm.. If history is any indication, they'll start selling it themselves, right?

Err..

Re:P2P? (1)

Rhys (96510) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881926)

Look at the record companies and say, "we did what we could" perhaps?

Re:P2P? (2, Interesting)

Liselle (684663) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881947)

If Apple keeps going after every website that hosts it, its gonna be everywhere on P2P... what are they gonna do then?
Once they pick all the low-hanging fruit (hosted on popular websites), the recording industry can't claim they didn't try. Steve Jobs said himself that it was only a matter of time before the DRM was cracked, I am surprised it lasted this long (I'm sure he is, too). I predict Apple is going to make a good-faith effort to send around take-down notices to anyone who hosts it, and then it will live on in the P2P underground.

Remember bnetd? Blizzard had no problem with people who loved their game, but they'd be idiots to stand by while a program existed that circumvented their CD-key system. Same deal with Apple (sot of).

So... (-1, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881763)

So much for apple being different than other large companies...

Re: (-1, Troll)

Gherald (682277) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881899)

I would like to see some Apple fans respond intelligently to the parent's point:

"So much for apple being different than other large companies..."

Use words, not mod points.

Re: (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882009)

Different from, not different than.

Smart enough? No, wait... that's smartass. My bad.

Re: (1)

nojomofo (123944) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882059)

Sorry, but the only way that this indicates that Apple is the same as other large companies is that it indicates that they are interested in protecting their business. Really. As other people have mentioned in other threads, this is similar to the FSF or somebody like that going after GPL violators. People who download iTunes songs agree to the terms. They don't want to follow them? Then that's a violation of that contract. You do think that the GPL should be enforced?

Re: (4, Insightful)

r4bb1t (663244) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882063)

Why does it automatically become evil when a company wants to defend a product/scheme/etc. that they have spent time, money, and man hours developing?

Apple isn't breaking down doors, calling the FBI, pillaging homes. They're sending legal notices asking politely for people to take down content. That's how the system works.

Unfair at times it may be, it doesn't mean that the entire system is corrupted and we should brand Apple with a scarlet letter. If you don't like the way things work, then send letters to your Congressman/woman about our copyright law. Send email to Senators about the DMCA. Get involved, and things will change.

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881764)

w00t! FIRST POST>

They could move PlayFair to Afghanistan... (5, Funny)

Jon Abbott (723) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881766)

...It'll never be caught there! :^)

Ba-doom-boom-crash!

Apple Playing Fair (0, Interesting)

turbobuick (227672) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881771)

Why can't they just seem to leave well enough alone? I'd like to know under what law they are threatening PlayFair.

Re:Apple Playing Fair (2, Informative)

Anml4ixoye (264762) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881847)

As another poster pointed out, they didn't specify *what* laws they were going to do anything. They merely said that if they didn't take it down, they would begin reviewing what legal options they had available to them. Maybe they don't have any, maybe they do - but if I had Apple's lawyers on my back I might want to take it down too until I found out they had no chance of touching me.

Re:Apple Playing Fair (1)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882013)

Heh, well by American standards at least, that was the most laughable legal threat letter I've ever seen. You might be violating two vague laws in some country. Huh? Who the hell got paid to write that letter? Also wasn't it obvious to the people who ran Sarovar from day one that their site would end up being used as a haven from repressive American and European intellectual property laws for controversial Open Source and Free Software projects? Well now they've got what they wanted, and they buckled to a POS letter like that. Embarrassing.

well enough? (1)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881874)

When a program is threatening Apple's business, that may be well enough for you, but not for them.

Re:Apple Playing Fair (1)

zhenlin (722930) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881900)

DMCA by proxy? Sounds plausible, but probably not true.

Maybe they'll try to take it down by showing that some component or other of the hosting site is within DMCA jurisdiction.

Re:Apple Playing Fair (1)

LEgregius (550408) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882043)

My guess is that, while Apple may not "personally" mind the existence of playfair, they would have a strong incentive to remove it except maybe to keep people from using other digital players, they surely don't want it to exist because the RIAA may decide to force more stringent DRM for the next round of contract negotiations if playfair were to be easily accesible.

We'll see from apple's response to the plea from Real how much apple cares about using their DRM to keep things proprietary, but then, maybe not. Licensing to Real would mean more music attached to the iPod only.

IRAQ = VIETNAM (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881773)



How many Americans will die before Bush is out of office?

Far fewer than if Gore been elected (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881819)

Far fewer than if Gore had been elected, and allowed Saddam and the other terrorists to execute their plans to make 9-11 seem like small potatoes.

Thankfully, Gore was not elected, and the President is dealing with the root cause of the terrorist problem.

Re:Far fewer than if Gore been elected (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881844)

Root causes?

Like helping to educate and feed the poor?

Re:Far fewer than if Gore been elected (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882055)

Huh? Osama is hungry? Well fuck, throw him a burger and let's end all this. What a fucking dumbass. Fuck you stupid.

Send in the marines! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881786)

Gotta get those damn bastards before they cause any more trouble! Shoot them until they're dead!

Oh, and liberate India on the way out. Hey, two birds with one stone!

Wait, what's that? India is an ally? Oh... Um... Guess we'll just have to settle for killing those "PlayFair" guys, whatever that means. Darn, I was looking forward to my daily bloodbath. Wonder how Iraq is doing? *click*

- G. W. Bush

Time for the /. IANAL to begin (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881796)

It seems as if their strongest argument is "take it down because Sourceforge did".
Not only that, the PlayFair program is against the express provisions of our Information Technology Act, 2000 and the Copyright Act, 1957 and you are equally liable as accessories,
I'm not familiar with what they are referring to. Is that Indian law, or are they doing some cross-ocean hand-waving and hoping Sarovar doesn't notice?

Re:Time for the /. IANAL to begin (3, Informative)

Aero Leviathan (698882) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881989)

You know that RIAA notice on movies? The one that says 'protected by United States copyright law and international treaties'? And then they show the INTERPOL logo? Of which India is a member [wikipedia.org] ?

Probably relates to this, too...

Re:Time for the /. IANAL to begin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882032)

I'm sorry, MPAA notice on movies. My bad. Or 'FBI warning' or wherever it really comes from.

Re:Time for the /. IANAL to begin (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882002)

They are both Indian laws.

Who didn't see this coming? (1, Interesting)

MoneyT (548795) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881799)

This certainly doesn't suprise me, however, I find something odd about the letter they posted. Something about that letter just doesn't seems right. Granted, I don't have much experience with C&D letters, but there's something about the language in the letter that seems off.

Re:Who didn't see this coming? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881933)

Where did you learn how to write "surprise", on slashdot? [slashdot.org]

Good Use for Freenet (1)

Kick the Donkey (681009) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881809)

Maybe this would be a good use for FreeNet [sourceforge.net] .

There'd be no way for them to force it down, if I understand freenet, anyway.

This is why... (1)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881824)

I downloaded the source the moment I saw it.

Re:This is why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881895)

You're probably too stupid to even know how to compile it.

Too little ... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881834)

... too late. It's out there, Apple can't get it back.

Mind you, I don't think it's such a terrible thing for them that they can't. It's not like you can get any old AAC and remove the DRM - only ones you own. So this is no different to CD ripping with its associated risks of ripped files being shared on P2P networks.

Why? (5, Insightful)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881835)

Why? if you dont like the itunes licence, don't use it. There are other ways of getting music online either legally or illgally. There are WMA options or you could just buy a real CD. When you bought the song on itunes, you agreed to the licence
The way people are talking here, it is ok if you bought a box of GPL software, decided it had commercial potential then released it. I make the comparison becasue, like the GPL, in the itunes system, you understand clearly what you agree to when you get it.
How is violating the itunes licence (that being you can share it with 3 machines, unliited ipods yada yada yada) different from voilating the GPL?

No. I bought the song (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881880)

When you bought the song on itunes, you agreed to the licence

When I bought the song, I bought the song. Period. I ignored the license. I already owned the song by that point, and it did not matter.

Re:No. I bought the song (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882046)

really? so when i buy a box of mandrake linux, i own it and can ignore the licence? i didnt know that..

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882005)

Let me try to rephrase what you said, just so I can make sure I understood you. Basically, you're saying that violating some sort of agreement, is similar to violating some other agreement....

Interesting indeed....

A little reminder here... (2, Insightful)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881840)

APPLE IS NOT THE BAD GUY!

OK, I'll admit it, I'm a long-time Apple user. But I'm not too quick to defend them when they are wrong. The first poster had a good point in that ITMS would not even exist without some DRM, and the reason for that is not because of Apple or any other retailer. It is because without the DRM, the RIAA would not permit any sort of digital distribution.

You want fair use? Fine! Write your own program for doing whatever you want. But to distribute a public project which is essentially a tool for excising the golden egg from the goose is not a sustainable action. Didn't anyone read Aesop's Fables as a kid?

Forget Aesop. What about Jurassic Park? Aren't there a million examples of the same moral? "Just because you CAN do something doesn't make it right."

Re:A little reminder here... (1, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881885)

Doesn't SAMBA take away Microsoft and their partner companies golden goose? What about Linux and Unix?

Apple should improve their protection, not try to hide the fact that it is fucked up.

PS. So much for Apple being different than other companies.

Re:A little reminder here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881956)

Yeah. And we shouldn't arrest shop lifters, stores should just improve their protection.

Oh no! RFID tags? wtf?!? Stupid companies!! People don't want to steal! Just give them a chance!

Re:A little reminder here... (1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881961)

Apple should improve their protection, not try to hide the fact that it is fucked up.

Unbreakable digital security is impossible. Therefore, security-by-legislation is used to assure that once the security puzzle is solved, the solution isn't published.

It's the only way DRM's going to work. If that solution isn't acceptable, then there's no way that the ??AAs are going to accept the download industry existing.

Re:A little reminder here... (1, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882029)

How about this?

Apple lives up to the bs the have been saying for 10+ fucking years about how they are totally different than other large companies.

Damn it, you HC apple supporters are just like the Bush|Clinton HC supporters in that what every YOUR side does is OK but if the other side does it it is the WORST FUCKING THING in the world.

Of course this will get mod bombed into hell soon like almost all posts about apple that do not proclaim apple the next best thing to God.

Re:A little reminder here... (1)

RezConRick (635772) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882042)

Thanks for one of the few postings on this subject that makes any sense. It's not like Apple has some kind of draconian restrictions on how you can use their music; almost any typical user wouldn't notice them. They just don't want to see iTunes music ending up on Kazaa. If Apple didn't use any DRM the iTMS wouldn't exist.

T-Shirt? (1)

kyoko21 (198413) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881848)

When do we get to see a T-shirt version of the playfair application? I'd like to see Steve Jobs making people to stop wearing the T-shirts. Though I suppose he could maybe stop people from making them in the first place.

Re:T-Shirt? (1)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881892)

Seeing that Steve Jobs seems to be sometimes a little choleric I really could imagine him tearing those T-Shirts off people wearing them personally. With a flamethrower. ;-)

For everybody defending Apple's DRM (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881854)

how would you react if, hypothetically, it was Microsoft or Real who introduced iTMS. Exact same conditions, etc, etc. And then someone cracks the DRM, and they use DMCA to hunt down them down. How would you react? Please be honest.

Fine by me. (3, Informative)

the unbeliever (201915) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881865)

I could care less about this program.

Anyone who's concerned about what little DRM Apple has put in the ITMS files can just burn it to an audio cd (on a rewritable disc) and then rip it to MP3. It's what my girlfriend and I do.

(besides, I could never get the win32 version of this program to do anything other than spit out the help file)

Re:Fine by me. (1, Interesting)

jkabbe (631234) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881934)

Anyone who's concerned about what little DRM Apple has put in the ITMS files can just burn it to an audio cd (on a rewritable disc) and then rip it to MP3. It's what my girlfriend and I do.

I have been told you can even use Toast to do this without creating a coaster.

But, honestly, this was bound to happen. If you can use Quicktime to play the song on your computer, it was only a matter of time before someone wrote a program to take that audio stream and recompress it to AAC (or any other format). Sure it's lossy, but it's good enough.

Of course, for me, having the songs stored in Fairplay encrypted AAC is good enough :)

Re:Fine by me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881996)

Oh for the love of fucking god.

The phrase is "couldn't care less"

Re:Fine by me. (0, Troll)

JudgeFurious (455868) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882036)

Absolutely dead on fucking correct.

Every single person complaining about Apple doing this is irrelevant to the whole concept of iTunes. They're either flat out thieves who aren't going to be happy with anything that anyone on the face of the earth comes up with unless it gives them the "keys to the kingdom" with no questions asked or they're hair splitting posers who'll bitch about it on principle alone until the sun burns out.

The rest of us are buying our music and enjoying it and the almost invisible DRM that has to be there. End of story

I Wonder... (1, Insightful)

tealover (187148) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881868)

I wonder if this were Microsoft rather than Apple trying to inflict the US legal system on a foreign country in this manner, would the person who submitted this article have a different reaction and would the reaction of Slashdotters be more hostile?

Yes, /. is filled with hypocrites. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8882008)

.Nuff said.

What's the problem? (5, Interesting)

r4bb1t (663244) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881871)

I have one of the original 5 gig iPods that I use on a daily basis. I may be one of the "converted" or "brainwashed" or whatever you'd like to say, but I don't see what's so wrong with the minmal DRM that Apple chose to use.

If I want, I can burn my songs to a CD. And play them in my car. Or in my house. Or at work. Or in a portable CD player.

If I want, I can put these songs on my iPod and listen to them wherever I go.

If I want, I can listen to these songs on my computer using iTunes.

I've yet to find a gross infraction upon my rights to do with the music as I wish.

The majority of digital music players (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881944)

If I want, I can put these songs on my iPod and listen to them wherever I go

That is the situation if you have the iPod, which plays the obscure non-standard AAC format. Most digital music players play MP3 format files.

You want to see lions? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881878)

Come to Kenya. Come to Kenya, we've got lions.

- Holy Crap. Lions! Tours

next stop.... (1)

hyperstation (185147) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881890)

sealand!

(it's still illegal for americans to conduct private business in iran, right?)

Ban the religions already (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881897)

Why are we here?
Because we're here
Roll the bones
Why does it happen?
Because it happens
Roll the bones

We come into the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That's the way that lady luck dances
Roll the bones

What's the deal? Spin the wheel.
If the dice are hot -- take a shot.
Play your cards. Show us what you got
What you're holding.
If the cards are cold,
Don't go folding.
Lady Luck is golden;
She favours the bold. That's cold
Stop throwing stones
The night has a thousand saxophones. So get out there and rock,
And roll the bones.
Get busy!

Why Playfair? (1)

wersh (765553) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881921)

From what I understand, Playfair's functionality is rooted in the OpenSource FAAD2 project, isn't it?

Why, then, is Apple pursuing Playfair so strenuously and not really bothering with FAAD2?

I love it! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881925)

These are great times, watching Apple zealots who will defend Apple to the death no matter what Apple does, fight it out with free-everything zealots who just want to be able to "share" music. Great stuff! Keep it up.

BitTorrent mirror for PlayFair (5, Informative)

hbmartin (579860) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881930)

Re:BitTorrent mirror for PlayFair (1)

SB5 (165464) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882015)

That's an old version.

Version 0.5 was the latest

I thought Apple Was Different? (-1, Troll)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 10 years ago | (#8881931)

I thought that Apple was different than other large companies?

my usage (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881942)

Playfair... let's me use my iTunes music library on my linux box. Tell me again why this is bad? Apple does not provide iTunes for linux, or any way to play their files under linux. I can't bring my personal machine to work because of a security policy, and I'm bound to a linux box.

So, since playfair has been released and I can play the music on my linux box, I have purchased about $200 worth of music from the itunes store. Previously, I had about 30 songs. playfair has only resulted in increased sales for apple.

Why use a GUI when you can run an itunes script? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8881999)

(*
This applescript will peruse the selected playlist for protected AAC songs, run the tracks through PlayFair, and add the stripped songs to a new playlist. This is for your own fair use...please don't ruin it for the rest of us and make your songs available on P2P networks.
*)
global protectedTracksFound
global newPlaylist

--initialize playList
tell me to set newPlaylist to ""

-- initialize protectedTracksFound flag
tell me to set protectedTracksFound to false

display dialog "This script will search for Protected AAC tracks in the selected playlist and prepare them for your own personal Fair Use...such as moving them to a non-iPod portable music player...by stripping the DRM. The original, protected, tracks will not be affected. DON'T STEAL MUSIC!"

-- Create/Set the new playlist for the converted tracks
tell me to handleNewPlaylist()

-- Begin search and conversion process
tell application "iTunes"
set oldFI to fixed indexing
set fixed indexing to true
set thePlaylist to a reference to view of front window
repeat with i from 1 to (count of tracks in thePlaylist)
set theTrack to track i of thePlaylist
with timeout of 300000 seconds
try
tell theTrack
if the kind of theTrack contains "Protected" then
set protectedTracksFound to true
set fileLoc to location as string
display dialog (("Converting '" & name of theTrack as string) & "'") giving up after 1
tell me to callPlayFair(fileLoc)
end if
end tell
end try
end timeout
end repeat
set fixed indexing to oldFI

if protectedTracksFound is false then
display dialog "No protected AAC tracks were found in the selected playlist. Please choose a playlist with at least one Protected AAC track and try again." with icon 0 giving up after 10
error number -128
else
display dialog "Finished! Your music has been set free!" buttons {"Thanks"} default button 1 giving up after 10
end if
end tell

-- Conversion subroutine
to callPlayFair(useFile)
tell application "iTunes"
set protectedAACPath to (POSIX path of useFile as string)
set freeAACPath to (POSIX path of (text 1 thru -5 of useFile) & ".m4a") as string
set writingFile to false
do shell script "usr/local/bin/playfair '" & protectedAACPath & "' '" & freeAACPath & "'"
tell me to addToNewPlaylist(freeAACPath)
end tell
end callPlayFair

-- add track to the output playlist subroutine
on addToNewPlaylist(freeTrack)
set newTrack to (POSIX file freeTrack)
tell application "iTunes"
add newTrack to newPlaylist
end tell
end addToNewPlaylist

-- Create or set output playlist subroutine
on handleNewPlaylist()
copy (display dialog "Add converted files to a playlist named:" default answer
"FairPlay Free" buttons {"OK"} default button 1 with icon 1
giving up after 300) to newPlaylistPrompt
set newPlaylistName to (text returned of newPlaylistPrompt)
tell application "iTunes"
if user playlist newPlaylistName exists then
set newPlaylist to a reference to user playlist named newPlaylistName
else
copy (make new playlist with properties {name:newPlaylistName}) to newPlaylist
end if
end tell
end handleNewPlaylist

How about let's not. (0, Offtopic)

Swamii (594522) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882010)

Let's hope that 'PlayFair' might appear in some other country now." Let's hope that 'weed smoking' might appear in some other country now.

Et Tu, Apple? (0, Troll)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882017)

Not that I'm surprised that Apple's chasing after this and other things that 'damage' their business, but it always disturbs me to hear about the army of Apple lawyers that descend on people when something isn't to their liking.

I don't recall MS sending out C&Ds like they are Christmas cards, but maybe they don't need to as MS has whores and drug pushers working directly with congress.

The undercurrent of control makes me wonder what Apple would be like if they ever deposed MS as market leader.

I love my mac, but don't want to be thrown in the gulag if I change a .plist file. Maybe Steve needs a vacation - relax, take in the scenery, enjoy a massage with a happy ending.

I'd like Apple to do well, but not at the loss of freedom to use my computer and the files I make and use with it.

The laws are Indian (4, Informative)

shamir_k (222154) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882022)

Both the Copyright Act 1957 [naukri.com] and the Information Technology Act, 2000 [mit.gov.in] are Indian laws. I doubt that the Copyright Act would have any DMCA like provisions that could apply on this case. Not so sure about the Information Technology Act. It was hailed as a great piece of forward looking legislation when it was introduced. Any Indian lawyers care to comment?

Post it on Freenet (2, Interesting)

Sebby (238625) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882030)

Although I'm not sure I would endorse this tool, I do support the idea behind it (using the songs you legally bought how you want, short of massive sharing or copyright infringment)

But I guess these guys could always post it on Freenet - let's see them trying to pull it off then!

Perhaps Apple Should Make iTunes for Linux/Unix (4, Insightful)

Vandil X (636030) | more than 10 years ago | (#8882066)

It seems to me that many of the copy-protection-circumvention programs that have come out in recent years (DeCSS, PlayFair) are not meant for piracy as much as they are to enable users of Linux and Unix to play DRM'd/locked content because they don't want to use the media on a Windows or Macintosh computer.

If Apple developed iTunes (and iPod drivers) for Linux and Unix, perhaps the number of people trying to circumvent the DRM would decrease.

As it stands, you can only buy online music if you use Windows or Mac OS X --a set up that accounts for 98% of computer users, maybe, but obviously the remaining 2% (Unix/Linux users) know how to code.

C'mon Apple, OS X is "based on Unix", so how hard could it be to port iTunes over to Linux and Unix? If you really want to set an online music standard (and possibly reduce OSS-attempts at circumvention), you gotta give Linux some love.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?