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iPod on Linux... with GPLed software 145

Anonymous Coward writes "gnuPod 0.2 has just been released. It's the first GPLed program that allows you to use your iPod under Linux. It has support for playlists and stores information in a XML file, so it's very easy to edit the data or write a frontend. Still a bit 'beta' but its ready for every-day-use and it works well together with iTunes. A mac-ipod2win-ipod howto is also included."
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iPod on Linux... with GPLed software

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  • by prichardson ( 603676 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @09:48AM (#4353401) Journal
    They didn't seem to make too much of a fuss when people successfully plugged them into their Windoze boxes, but will Apple get angry at this?

    Probably not, Apple seems to be pretty nice about people messing with their stuff.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 29, 2002 @10:13AM (#4353481)
      So now I can use my iPod with my Xbox!

      I have been waiting for this day...

    • Speaking of which, a Windows-only iPod is now available from Apple [apple.com]... o_O

      Still no good for me, as I use both Mac and PC. So I guess I'd be stuck with using one of those Mac-to-PC iPod programs. However, I'm holding off on getting an iPod until I can find such a program that has most, if not all of the features I want (iTunes notwithstanding).

      • by mclaugh ( 130321 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @10:29AM (#4353542) Homepage
        Buying a WinPod (or getting a MacPod and using the WinniePod Updater to make it a WinPod) allows you to use it on both Mac's and Wintel machines.
        It's well documented at Ipoding [ipoding.com], IpodHacks [ipodhacks.com], IpodLounge [ipodlounge.com], and the EphPod [ephpod.com] Forums that a Mac can read a WinPod. Thus, it works on both, and utilities are available to get your calendars and contacts on.
        The only thing you give up with this arrangement is the ability to use "smart playlists"- at this time, the EphPod folks are trying to figure out why a FAT32 Ipod doesn't seem to write back how many times you played a specific song.
    • I have a feeling that this will be one of those situation where Apple doesn't care. This is a project Apple would probably do themselves if money was no issue. But I guess they figure they're not going to do it anyway, so they might as well expand their userbase for no money.
    • Apple seems to be pretty nice about people messing with their stuff.
      I don't think I care how Apple feels about me messing with my stuff.

      (And by "their" I hope you didn't mean Apple, because they're selling these things, not lending them out).

    • Blockquoth prichardson:

      They didn't seem to make too much of a fuss when people successfully plugged them into their Windoze boxes, but will Apple get angry at this?

      Considering that Apple now sells iPods specifically to be plugged into Windows boxes, I don't think they'll care. The "Mac-only" nature of the iPod is now gone, and they want to sell as many as they can.

  • interesting (Score:4, Informative)

    by fjordboy ( 169716 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @09:49AM (#4353403) Homepage
    There's a great review of the iPod on Jesusgeeks.net [jesusgeeks.net] from the founder (gregday). He uses the iPod under linux and has a list of the programs he used, how he used them, and how it all worked out. To see the iPod review/howto, go here [jesusgeeks.net].

    Personally, I can't wait to get an iPod. For a while I've been dealing with a crappy mp3-cd player, but after reading so much about the iPod, I'm ready to make the switch as soon as I have the cash. 299 doesn't sound too bad for 5 gigs of mp3 storage. And it runs under linux! woohoo.
    • "299 doesn't sound too bad for 5 gigs of mp3 storage."

      I agree, but don't forget to factor in the cost of a firewire card!

      • I saw one for $9 at a local store.
        • "I saw one for $9 at a local store."

          That POS $9 firewire card won't support OHCI due to a low-value ancient chipset so you can say hello to hellish proprietary windows-only drivers and flaky-at-best linux support. And I'm willing to bet it won't support an internal power connection so you won't be able to recharge the iPod through via power through the firewire cord. And good luck getting any modern-day DV cam connected to it.

          You have to spend some good money to get a good firewire card. I am leaning toward the Adaptec DuoConnect [adaptec.com] because it has Firewire, USB 2.0, Internal connectors for those interfaces and PSU supplied power. (Cost: CDN$132 [ncix.com])

          • Good grief, for $132 I'd rather just buy a new motherboard with firewire and USB 2.0 built in!
            • "Good grief, for $132 I'd rather just buy a new motherboard with firewire and USB 2.0 built in!"

              Interesting ... I was just about to buy that thing. Keep in mind that for US$132 your thoughts would make perfect sense to me but for CAD$132 ... maybe.

    • 299 doesn't sound too bad for 5 gigs of mp3 storage.

      Yes, it does [amazon.com]. (20 Gb + recording for $255)
      • Yeah, but I'd have to push those annying arrows a hundred times to get to a song, as opposed to the iPod's scroll wheel. Plus, the iPod has a built-in contact and calendar list.

      • Archos Jukebox 20 GB [amazon.com] data

        Batteries: 4 AA batteries
        Height: 4.5 inches
        Width: 3.2 inches
        Depth: 1.3 inches
        Weight: 0.75 pounds (340 g for you metric folks)
        (not clear whether this includes batteries).

        iPod specs [apple.com]:
        Built-in rechargeable lithium polymer battery (1200 mAh)
        Size and weight (20GB model)
        Height: 4.0 in
        Width: 2.4 in
        Depth: 0.84 in
        Weight: 7.2 oz (204 g)

        You do the math.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I was afraid I might have to spend a couple of dollars so that my 500 dollar toy could run. Yeah, I know you said GPL and not just free, but I think it is funny considering that there will be many that will say, "Damn straight! Why should I have to pay for it running on my OS? Word"
  • by mithras the prophet ( 579978 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @09:50AM (#4353408) Homepage Journal
    Considering that Apple, uh, "requested" that MediaFour rename the XPod software [mediafour.com] (now XPlay), and that the developers rename the xtunes jukebox [tex9.com] (now "sumi")... I don't think "gnuPod" will be long for this world.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I hope that apple won't sue me :)
      As far as i know they wrote tex9 a 'bad' letter because they made a 1:0.9 copy of iTunes..

      gnuPod has 3 chars before the pod.. Xpod has one, like iPod..

      and 'pod' is not a trademark of apple..
      pod2html, pod2latex....
    • Well, Apple does have to defend their Trademarks or they become generic and anybody will be able to call their MP3 player an iPod.

      I don't know if Apple will ask them to change this one, but the Author would be well advised to contact Apple first and see if they think that gnuPod might interfere. The development of this software benefits Apple, and if it helps them sell more iPods, Apple will be very happy. If it dilutes their trademark, then they will ask for a name change and nothing more.

      • Well, Apple does have to defend their Trademarks or they become generic and anybody will be able to call their MP3 player an iPod.

        That's funny. I remember the iPod media blitz, where Jonathan Ives (apple's lead industrial design guy), says, "Our goal was to design the very, very best MP3 player that we could; to design something that could become an icon. And, you know, we'll see if that's the case, or not."

        And, you know, the second another product shows up with a name "remotely" like iPod, they get letters from Apple legal.
        • And, you know, the second another product shows up with a name "remotely" like iPod, they get letters from Apple legal.

          And your point is? They're defending their trademark. They didn't sue to get the product squashed, they justed asked to rename it or make changes when it was way too close to iTunes.

          Defending your trademark is a reasonable and expected thing to do. For example, if somebody wrote a new kernal and called it Lynux that worked exactly like Linux, you'd expect Linus to go after them.

    • The XPod and XTunes debacle raised quite a fw hackles in the Mac community too. If they had contacted Apple through a different channel rather than Apple Legal (the most viscious of people I have ever seen) on XTunes they probably would not have had such a bad time of it. The X was what got them into an uproar. The arguement was centered around Mac Users confusing the X in the names with a compatibility for OS X. gnuTunes or even lTunes (l for Linux) would probably have never even raised an eyebrow from Apple.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 29, 2002 @09:59AM (#4353433)
    I started a petition at Apple's Discussion board for people to "sign" (reply to) if you support Ogg Vorbis decoding on the iPod. The CPU the iPod uses is based on an ARM7 core, and will work nicely with Xiph's integer based decoder, Tremor [xiph.org]. Anyone who supports it, especially those for whom Ogg support would be the deciding factor in an iPod purchase, are invited to add a comment here [apple.com].

    The only reason the iPod software revision 1.20 has Calendar, Contacts, EQ Presets, and track scrubbing is because users asked for it. So let's show Apple what it would take to convert all of us Freedom loving geeks! Support Ogg!
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Apple won't include ogg support in iPod.. because:

      It's impossible..
      http://neuron.com/~jason/PP5002Produ ctBrief.pdf

      the iPod uses this chip to decode mp3's .. no ogg support..

      but maybe iPod2 will have ogg support?
      • by RussGarrett ( 90459 ) <russ.garrett@co@uk> on Sunday September 29, 2002 @10:27AM (#4353529) Homepage

        From http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html [apple.com]:

        Audio

        • Up to 20 minutes of skip protection
        • Maximum output power: 60 mW rms (30 mW per channel)
        • Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz
        • Audio formats supported: MP3 (up to 320 Kbps), MP3 Variable Bit Rate (VBR), WAV, AIFF, Audible® (for Mac only)(4)
        • Upgradable firmware enables support for future audio formats

        What was that again?

      • by pslam ( 97660 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @11:32AM (#4353741) Homepage Journal
        The 5002 is a dual ARM7TDMI processor. I've worked on lots of ARM based products and I can say with certainty that a single ARM7TDMI has plenty of CPU left over after decoding MP3, WMA or Vorbis. Actually, you could probably decode two MP3 streams simultaneously with MHz to spare.

        Perhaps you're not understanding that this isn't a "hardware mp3 decoder" chip - it's a general purpose CPU with approximately the processing power of an Intel 486 66-100MHz (depending on what you're doing). Provided the codec you want isn't too MIPS (or memory) hungry, you could software upgrade to support it.

        • The 5002 is a dual ARM7TDMI processor.

          At what clock rate? The Game Boy Advance has a single ARM7TDMI at 16.8 MHz, and it's generally accepted that the GBA can't decode MP3 without extra hardware on the cart.

          • At what clock rate? The Game Boy Advance has a single ARM7TDMI at 16.8 MHz, and it's generally accepted that the GBA can't decode MP3 without extra hardware on the cart.

            Presumably enough to at least do MP3. Vorbis (with the Tremor decoder) takes roughly the same amount of MIPS.

          • The data sheet says 90MHz.
        • I think you are mistaken, at least I read the product info on PortalPlayer's product pages differently. The second processor in the 5001 (don't know about the 5002) seems to be indeed a DSP. And consider also that the iPod also has to maintain a UI during playback. I'm also working on ARM based products and have dealt with MP3 decoders, but I wouldn't paint the decoding picture as rosy as you do...
          • The second processor in the 5001 (don't know about the 5002) seems to be indeed a DSP.

            It's actually another ARM7TDMI complete with its own unified cache, and shares internal SRAM.

            And consider also that the iPod also has to maintain a UI during playback.

            But Vorbis (Tremor) has roughly the same processing requirements as MP3 playback, so whatever difficulties there were before would be the same.

    • I support you! I'll leave my comment to your petition.

      I'll definitely buy the iPod if it could decode Ogg!
    • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @04:01PM (#4354851)
      In addition to asking for iPod Vorbis support, I also asked that they supported Vorbis in iTunes and bitrate reduction.

      Now that iTunes has music rating, imagine a feature where you could say "Take all of the music I've selected to sync to this small device, and compress all music (starting with the lowest rated songs) until it all fits.

      Since Vorbis has great bitrate reduction features I think this would be pretty easy to support and would really increase usability of small devices, in that you wouldn't have to think so hard about how to choose what would fit - just what you want.
    • While we're at it: Why don't we ask apple to add a nifty playlist editor. It would really be nice to be able to use those unused minutes at the bus stop and adapt the playlists to my mood and the weather. I wouldn't cry if they had to make space by getting rid of the quick and dirty implementaion of the block-out-type game...
    • Acturlly Apple is much more likely to include AAC (MPEG4 Audio) support than Ogg. Rumors will even have it that they already have some support for it in iTunes internally.
    • I'd love to sign your petition but I was asked to sign up and get an Apple ID. I couldn't see any obvious links to do this - maybe I have to be a bona fide mac owner or something.

      Help?

  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm using 'SyncPOD'. Form the homepage:

    This script syncs a local directory with your iPod. If the directory is larger than the space on your iPod you can sync this larger directory with a master playlist: SyncPOD - Syncs a local folder with your iPod [armin.emx.at]

    Features:

    * Syncronisation with
    a) a local directory
    b) a master playlist

    * Optional playlists

    * On the fly created playlists

    * Mp3 info from
    a) mp3 tags
    b) filenames

    * Creation of iTunesDB file from all files on you iPod

    • by FonkiE ( 28352 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @10:58AM (#4353637)
      You need a FAT32 iPod, Linux, Firewire support and Perl5 to run the software. License: GPL V2.

      Form the SyncPOD homepage [armin.emx.at]:

      This script syncs a local directory with your iPod. If the directory is larger than the space on your iPod you can sync this larger directory with a master playlist.

      Features:

      * Syncronisation with a local directory or a master playlist
      * Optional playlists
      * On the fly created playlists
      * Mp3 info from mp3 tags or filenames
      * Creation of iTunesDB file from all files on your iPod
  • xml (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tps12 ( 105590 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @10:12AM (#4353475) Homepage Journal
    stores information in a XML file, so it's very easy to edit the data or write a frontend

    Or so goes the conventional wisdom. As a Linux user, most of the software I run now uses XML for storing configuration and data. Of course, none of them can exchange data with any others, so it ends up just adding weight to everything. For example, why does the ogle DVD player require libxml2? Are DVDs in XML now? I must have missed the memo. In my experience, XML's supposed benefits are primarily vapor. At least binary formats save on storage space and network bandwidth.
    • Re:xml (Score:3, Insightful)

      Amen. Here's a virtual "insightful" mod point for you. On with the XML bashing!

      An easy-to-parse text-based format (non-xml) could be good also:

      fruit: {
      type: "apple"
      density: 5
      worms: [
      "randy"
      "susan"
      "george"
      ]
      }

      (That's TSDF2, for you. Easier to read, write than XML, and uses less bandwidth. Parse it in 40 lines of PHP, or less if you're clever :-)

      I think the problem is that XML is a markup language, whereas what people really want is a structured data language. XML is good for marking up text, but pretty lousy for what most people want to do with it.
      • (That's TSDF2, for you. Easier to read, write than XML, and uses less bandwidth. Parse it in 40 lines of PHP, or less if you're clever :-)

        Or ~5 lines, if you're really, really, clever. Why add 40 lines of PHP to a web application, when you don't really have to? Yeah, with XML you supply the DTD and call the already written parser. Do you want to pit your 40 lines of php against expat or libxml2 ( via PHP extensions )? I didn't think so.

        Plus you're going to have to write a parser for any language you want your script to be supported in. What if we would want other apps to be able to configure this application? With XML you would just have to provide the DTD.

        Linux has a lot of fine programs that can only be configured using a config file. That's a drawback for many users. Using XML configuration files would at least make it easier for gui developers to come in after the fact and provide configuration gui's for those. I've work on a gui for an application I did not write once ( OpenLDAP ), pain in the butt. I have to modify the parser whenever a feature is add or deprecated. If the config was XML based, only a DTD would need to be changed.

        Is your parser building a decent parse tree with a load of already written accessor functions to traverse/modify/output this tree ( aka DOM )? I did not think so.

        Also, try modifying your simple language in the future. You'll have to modify your parser every time you did. With XML, just edit the DTD

        Your script language might be simple to you, but it's another syntax your users would have to get familar with, another one added to dozens of others. I've seen enough of those, there is no reason to not have a stardard syntax for most configuration files IMHO.

        The more applications that move to XML the better!

        • I think you are arguing at cross purposes.

          The original poster pointed out some flaws in XML (and XML is close to being the worst of all possible worlds) and how easy they would have been to fix.

          You point out the advantages of the existence of having a standard (XML) and that there are tools around to help you manipulate the stuff.

          Both points of view hold water. But, technically, XML is really rather bad and we are already paying the price for it.
    • Well, XML is bloated and binary formats suck because they aren't human parseable. Why not use HDF5 (Hierarchical Data Format version 5) [uiuc.edu]. It can even gzip files on the fly to save even more on storage. Perhaps it might be a bit overkill for a tiny little configuration file, but it does have everything you want. :-)

    • I've found XML to be quite handy for config files, etc.

      * You can validate/verify them with DTDs, etc. This is for free once you write the schema/DTD. If it's your own config file, you've got to make that stuff yourself.
      * You can view them pretty easily (although I dev. on linux/solaris, sometimes I use IE or xmlt2html to view the config files).
      * You can change things quite easily, and not harm existing applications. Adding another field to a song record won't mess up other applications that aren't using those XPaths,etc. Similarly, you cna have an element, say, called NetworkConfig, with all sorts of unknown stuff in it that you pass to a library routine, and it'll just read the stuff for you. You don't need to make it into any fancy structure.
      * You can transform documents from one type to another type with XSLT, etc.
      * The weight difference really isn't that bad. What's another 10k to a config file? Esp. if it's readable? Would you prefer XML-RPC/SOAP, or some random Corba stuff/compiling stubs? Even if it's 10 times as big, is the cost that bad on a 40G hd? Only data that a human wouldn't be able to understand (i.e. raw image data, compressed) has to be binary formatted.

      I guess I find it hard to believe that people would prefer countless different types of config files, writing their own parsing code and validation routines, binary formats for non time-critical data, and the general chaos that used to exist.

      Sure, there is a plethora of XML libraries out now, but I'm sure the numbers will continue to drop down as the best/easiest implementations make themselves known... In the mean time, people are developing a very capable set of tools to deal with a very expressive document structure. Sounds nice to me.

  • Apple coded up a WIndows-compatible PC because people were screaming for it - it really is a truly breakthru MP3 player. Yes, others have the same capacity. But NO OTHER PLAYER ON THE MARKET combines superior capacity, style, battery life, skip protection, xtras (calendar, contacts, etc.), size, and weight into one package.
    If you don't think so, I encourage you to go to an Apple retail store and use one. You will be blown away, and I can say that without hesitation.
    its fantastic that there is now a way for linux users to use iPods - believe it or not, many Mac users actually use LInux as a secondary OS - myself included. Sure, I want the Mac's ease of use and stability and combination of Unix core w/ common everyday productivity apps, but do I NEED a Mac for all my ventures and projects? Hell no. And now I can use my iPod when I'm sitting at my Linux box.
    See, Apple is about possibility. I doubt they'll have any problems w/ this because it will equal MORE HARDWARE SALES, which is their bread and butter. AND they didn't have to code it up themselves. Even better.
    Horray linux! Horray Mac! Working together towards a beautiful co-existent future devoid of M$!
    • heh, i mean Windows-compatible iPod. My bad.
    • Well, it isn't too much of a surprise--Apple has always reaped most of its profits through the sell of hardware. The iPod was a bit different from a lot of the products in this respect because it is such cool product that there is a high demand for it by Windows users as well as Mac users. Thus, they had someone make windows software for it and wached their sales take off ;).
  • This is really cool. If Apple added ogg support to their iPod I would chuck my very old 32MB flash mp3 player and buy one of these in an instant. However, this kind of notice, "First program to do task X under linux!" kinda frightens me. I mean, it's good that it's being done and I'm sure a lot of people would get a lot of use out of it, but what happens when the second program comes out, and the third?

    In an open market where physical goods are being sold, competition is good and improves consumer choice.
    Don't like product A? Try substitute product B.
    Think B is too expensive? Try product C.
    And so on...
    Same thing to a lesser extent with commercial software, except there might not be two packages that do *exactly* the same thing but could still be substituted for eachother. Example: Dreamweaver and GoLive. Both are site design tools, but they don't have exactly the same function sets. (PLEASE no flames to the effect of "How DARE you compare Dreamweaver and GoLive?! ABC is OBVIOUSLY superior to XYZ! They're not even in the same class of products!" It's just an example.)

    However, with open source software, <sweeping generalization>multiple "substitute" goods can hurt choice and the end user's experience.</sweeping generalization> Why? Well, many times, like this one, a piece of OSS doesn't perform a complete function that the average user can take advantage of. A backend is great, but unless you love the command line to death and can't get enough of long technical manuals, readmes, and errata, and don't really care if it takes you an hour or mode just to get started, you're going to want a frontend. It may be a textual one with a nice menu system. Undoubtedly someone will produce one of those (not everyone likes mice ;) ). It may be an app that uses qt widgets and integrates really well with konqueror. I can see KPod coming now. It may be one based on gtk2 that snuggles up next to nautilus. That would be GPod. Let's say that there are two backends: backend1 and backend2. Let's further say that the designers of the textual and gtk2 frontends decided to build on backend1 because that's the one that they could get to work on their home boxes. The KDE designer is using backend2 because it's easier to write on top of.

    At first glance it seems like the user has a lot of choice - two backends and three frontends are available to let him access his iPod under linux. Except he's a KDE user and he can't get backend2 to work. Or he's got his GNOME desktop all set up the way he likes it but the only way he can get the feature he needs from backend1 (which he has to use because there's no GNOME frontend for backend2) is by using the latest alpha build of backend1 which tends to crash when doing large file transfers. He could try using the console frontend or reading up on the backend, but the last time he tried that he borked his iPod when he tried to convert its built-in HFS+ partition to FAT32. The "simple" task of getting his linux box to talk to his iPod is turning into a headache. "Hmm," he thinks, "I heard Windows DRM 2005 has a nice iPod app that just works...maybe I should try that out."

    Ok, ok, I'm aware that this is an obviously constructed scenario, but I think it illustrates my point. Wouldn't we be better off with ONE backend that WORKS rather than two that are lacking? Just like closed source software development has its strengths and weaknesses, so does open source. I've just described one of the weaknesses - the tendency to have multiple projects that try to do the same thing and end up splintering the user base. Take advantage of the corresponding strength of OSS: that you can work together on a SINGLE project with another developer even if she's halfway around the world (as long as you speak the same [programming] language). Please, developers, please - if you despise the way a particular backend works, don't just start your own. Unless the first one goes away, you'll only end up hurting users. Find out if there's a way you can contribute to the backend - fix the bug that's really bothering you or add the feature you desperately need to a project that's already started. Work together with other developers - it's better for everyone involved.
  • Call me nitpicky, but it should be made clear that this software lets you sync your iPod with the Linux platform, as opposed to running your iPod under Linux which implies a new firmware for the iPod that replaces the iPodOS.

    With all the Linux PDAs and open source Linux replacements for existing PDA firmware, this kind of clarification is necessary.

    Actually, the confusion is a testament to the versatility of Linux. What other OS could be used so easily in both desktop and digital appliance environments as to make necessary the clarification? Nobody assumes the Windows iPod runs Windows, after all...
    • Actually, the confusion is a testament to the versatility of Linux. What other OS could be used so easily in both desktop and digital appliance environments as to make necessary the clarification?
      I totally agree that Linux runs on a variety of hardware, but there is at least one operating system which probably runs on a greater variety than Linux. That operating system is NetBSD [netbsd.org]. The motto for NetBSD is "Of course it runs NetBSD." and if you look at the list of hardware [netbsd.org] which it runs on, you will see why. They have it running on just about every computing platform out there, and it will even run on stuff like the Sega Dreamcast and Sony Playstation.
    • Actually, the confusion is a testament to the versatility of Linux. What other OS could be used so easily in both desktop and digital appliance environments as to make necessary the clarification?
      Uhnn... NetBSD? OpenBSD? FreeBSD?
  • by kzinti ( 9651 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @11:55AM (#4353841) Homepage Journal
    Check out this HOWTO for using a Win-iPod under linux:

    http://www.cs.duke.edu/~geha/ipod/ [duke.edu]

    Executive summary:

    1. Build a kernel to support IEEE1394
    2. Mount the iPod as a vfat filesystem
    3. Use Wine to run EphPod [ephpod.com].

    This is how I update my iPod, and it works, but it has some problems:

    * The linux ieee1394 drives sometimes don't recognize the iPod, and sometimes generate kernel Oopsies.

    * Some functions of EphPod don't work, must notably the "Add Directory" function. This is probably a Wine limitation, but it's still irritating. EphPod doesn't check the id3v2 Composer tags, so your iPod's Browse->Composer menu is empty. EphPod has the feel of an app with a lot of maturing left to do -- but it's better than nothing.

    * In general, the process is pretty klunky and needs lots of by-hand coaxing and prodding. I expect this to improve as the ieee1394 drives and Wine both improve.

    That said, it's really cool to see that someone's making native linux support for the iPod. If you check around, you can find that there are several efforts to do this underway, some more half-assed than others... a guy here who's written a perl script to dump the database, a guy there who's got a python script for the same. But it's pretty obvious that there's a lot of interest in seeing real linux support for the iPod, so I expect to see those disparate efforts coalesce pretty quickly. It'll be nice to have.

    By the way, I just love my 20GB iPod. 150 albums downloaded so far, and still 8.5GB left. You've just gotta get one of these things!

    --Jim

  • by BitGeek ( 19506 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @01:29PM (#4354186) Homepage


    Just a year ago when the iPod was announced the slashdot post was full of comments about how it sucked, was too expensive, was inferior to what was already out there, how firewire was uneeded, how it was "Yet another overpriced toy with less features", and all kinds of other ranting and raving.

    Now everyone seems to love it. Interesting.

    This leads me to further conclusions: People hate/whine/complain about MAcs/OSX/Apple because they have not USED them. now that people have heard a friends iPod, they know the iPod rocks (and have gotten over the knee jerk reaction of a year ago).

    So we see people adding support for it to Linux-- notice Apple didn't make it proprietary, they just made it convenient for *THEIR* software and others have been able to hack together software compatible with iTunes and not a peep from apple (Except when they name it xPod) No custom FireWire protocol (and trust me, they could have easily- there are dozens of proprietary random fireWire protocols that some hardware manufacturers use to lock you into their software. Fortunately that trend is on the wane.)

    So, maybe Apple's strategy is working. Maybe some people have or will now experience the superior joy that comes with the iPod and realize that an iMac delivers the same quality differential... and stop looking at price and faked performance claims so much.

    After all, inside of a year this crowd has gone from whining and complaining about the iPod to asking for Ogg support.

    • One also must not forget that OS X won over a LOT of the "geek" crowd, and their contributions to the open source world may have changed Apple's perception from the scary old man offering you some candy to the electric horsey ride that lets you ride longer than usual.

      People are giving Apple and their products a chance when a year or two ago, they may not have.

      Regards,
      Sean
      np: Sentenced, Mourn
    • by Trongy ( 64652 )
      There was and still is no non-proprietary software that can read and write to the ipod's HFS+ filesystem for windows and linux. I don't think apple did this to lock non-mac users out, it just happens to be the native mac filesystem and what apples engineers know best. The fat32 filesystem on the windows version of the ipod is also well supported by linux and the *bsd. At the time it was released, I thought that it was a pretty cool piece of engineering but not likely to be well supported on the computers and operating systems that I use. Now all I need is the money.

      I still would like vorbis support, which should be easy for apple now that tremor is free.

    • After all, inside of a year this crowd has gone from whining and complaining about the iPod to asking for Ogg support

      Erm... you can only make that assumption if you can show that new posts are coming the same posters who previously complained. People tend to comment on the stories that they relate to (of course), so you've seen posts from one set of Slashdotters before and now you're seeing posts from another set.

      To quote Walt Whitman:
      Do I contradict myself?
      Very well then I contradict myself,
      (I am large, I contain multitudes.)

      Anna B

    • Well, I don't know about slashdot as a whole, but I love iPod. Best toy I've bought in YEARS. Now I haven't tried to make it run with windows or linux (yet) as I'm an old mac fan, but it's great to know you can.
  • by plastik55 ( 218435 ) on Sunday September 29, 2002 @03:05PM (#4354582) Homepage
    I stopped using gnuPod since it didn't support ordering (i.e., if I added all the songs in an album, they'd show up on the iPod in alphabetical order, rather than the proper order determined by the track numers in the id3 tag. gnuPOD also doesn't do synchronization, and the hoops you have to go through to remove files from the iPod are rather cumbersome.

    SyncPOD [armin.emx.at] seems to work better for me. It has its own limitations and bugaboos, but it knows how to do correct ordering. I threw together a script which select albums from my collection at random to fill 5GB of space and makes symlinks to the selected mp3 files inside SyncPOD's synchronization directory. It works, after a little debugging (be warned that SyncPOD in its present release doesn't escape spaces or any other characters in filenames which might be interpreted by the shell.)
  • ... from the man who pronounced it lame [slashdot.org].
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Has anyone else been underwhelmed by the sound quality of the iPod?

    I've found that at 320 kbps, classical music sounds *dreadful* in the quiet parts - as if it is being played by a Jamaican steel band! It has the characteristic "gargling" / "underwater" sound of low bitrate MP3 (perhaps only 128k).
    I've done an experiment which proves the point:

    1)CD -> rip to .wav file -> load .wav onto iPod and play back. Result: perfect.
    2)CD -> rip to .wav file. Use lame to encode to MP3 at 320kbps. Load MP3 onto iPod. Result: very disappointing.
    3)Take MP3 from step 2. Descode on pc back to a .wav. Load this wav onto the iPod. Result: As good as (1).

    This only shows up in the softer parts of the track (there is a very large dynamic range), and it is far more obvious on classical music. I'm ripping/encoding on linux and syncing using XPlay on WinXP with a 20GB Mac iPod.

    Let me know what you think?

    Am I guessing correctly that the decoder is short on CPU power, and discards some of the data?
  • Here [bwsys.net] is another informative site on using Ephpod with Linux/wine. Ephpod is arguably one of the best iPod on windows apps, and has so far proven very stable under stock wine.

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