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Terra Soft Ships Macs with Linux Preinstalled

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the gimme-gimme-some-lovin dept.

Apple 332

dhovis writes "Do you think the Xserve is cool, but you wish it ran Linux? Well, MacCentral is reporting that Terra Soft Solutions, an Apple 'Value Added Reseller,' is now shipping Macs. They are offering several new Macs with Yellow Dog Linux preinstalled now, and are promising the Xserve will be available soon." They are currently shipping Power Mac G4s, iBooks, and iMacs, as well as AirPort cards. See the Terra Soft Store for more information.

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hot damn (-1)

buster hyman (256882) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039330)

BIG DEAL.

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039332)

Oh yeah.

Sincerely,
-Tourettes Troll

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039347)

Oh, fuck.

Sincerely,
-Tourettes Troll

Just out of curiosity (0, Troll)

jormurgandr (128408) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039335)

How were they able to get Steve Jobs to OK this? That guy has made every bad business decision he could, I dont understand why he is suddenly changing his game plan. Whats next, open source aqua (that would rock)? I dunno, just my 2 cents

You answered your own question (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039368)


How were they able to get Steve Jobs to OK this? That guy has made every bad business decision he could


Exactly. Running Linux on anything is a bad business decision.

Newsbreak! Nobody gives a shit! (-1, Offtopic)

This_Is_ASDF (587337) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039339)

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MOD PARENT UP! +5 INSIGHTFUL (-1, Offtopic)

suffocate (90016) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039348)

MOD PARENT UP!!

Hmmm (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039342)

Do you think the Xserve is cool, but you wish it ran Linux?

No.

No.

However, I wish Linux ran, period.

neet (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039343)

Linux - the best way to take your expensive
computer and make it utterly useless for the
consumer.

I've been running linux since the 0.99 kernel
days, so i know.

Yellow Dog? (1)

death00 (551487) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039344)

What were they thinking?

Re:Yellow Dog? (3, Insightful)

Otter (3800) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039357)

Well, they are Yellow Dog.

Oh, yeah! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039345)

First crank!!!

Price? (0)

gerf (532474) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039349)

So, now we can put a 'free as in beer' OS on a system where the parts in general cost more? Like a Wookie living on Endor, that does not make sense!

Re:Price? (2, Insightful)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039414)

Likewise, I see no value proposition in putting GNU/linux on Apple hardware. One of the primary benefits of GNU/linux is that it runs well on generic (i.e. cheap) hardware. The benefits of OS X are primarily in what Apple brings to the table in terms of interface and software.

This has some geek factor to it, but the benefits I see from apple and the benefits I see from GNU/linux are thrown out and turned exactly around. Expensive Apple hardware running a GNU/linux product with a less-polished interface.

Admittedly, the main post addressed Apple's server product, for which the Apple interface issues are much less pronounced, but the expense of the hardware is still an issue. I just don't get it, I guess.

This post made in compliance with the RMSDMCA.

Re:Price? (2)

b1t r0t (216468) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039743)

This has some geek factor to it

Only to the types who have barely progressed beyond Red Hat == Linux. The only "geek factor" distros of x86 Linux are Slackware and Debian, and running BSD on x86 has even higher geek factor. Guess what OS X is based on?

Re:Price? (1)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039793)

The geek factor I was referring to is not the value of the GNU/Linux install but simply the idea of putting GNU/Linux somewhere new, like on a potato-powered clock or something similar. The distro used for the install on Apple hardware was not a relevant point. This was pure and simple "potato clock" geek factor.

Re:Price? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039431)

wookiee

Re:Price? (0, Offtopic)

Fuzzle (590327) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039838)

actually, originally, ewoks were supposed to be wookies. They were just changed because lucas wanted a wookie in the first movie. So he cut them in half and called them "ewoks". Now you know...and you know the rest...

My two cents (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039356)

Apple's have great hardware, (yes the motorola is MUCH better than the intel), so it seems natural to couple them with good software. At my work, the sysadmin just bought a bunch of iMAC's, stripped them of their OS and stuck Linux PPC on them. Works for me, now this just saves us some work. More power to them, options are ALWAYS good.
Check this out for an artistic commentary on how this will effect the computer industry [nathandial.com]

Re:My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039417)

Apple's have great hardware, (yes the motorola is MUCH better than the intel)

It could be the greatest hardware in the world but I can still get an AMD or Intel chip that is faster and cheaper.

Re:My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039475)

Yes you can get a faster intel or AMD for your $$$, but buisnesses benifit here, along with other companies which don't have personal user budget constraints. I am by no means a fan of apple, but motorola makes kick-ass hardware.

The apple mice suck however, there is a big downside, next up - two button emulation for Linux PPC!

The funniest site you'll ever see! [nathandial.com]

Re:My two cents (1)

bellings (137948) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039547)

but buisnesses benifit here

I honestly can't think of a single advantage this would give a business. If you don't have a sysadmin who is experienced enough with Linux to slap linux on quickly, then I can't imagine your cost of ownership would go down by using linux. And, laugh all you want, but if you're going to run linux anyhow, I can't see much advantage to the apple hardware.

Why not go pick up some Suns and run linux on those, instead?

Re:My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039558)

Suns are generally MUCH more expensive, and many managers aren't familiar with them, and so shy away. Apple however is a well known company. In addition a bunch of idiotic managers won't let there sysadmin's swap out an OS because they are afraid of the problems, this seems to fix it.

All your base? Old news, try HALLO! and laugh your ass off! [nathandial.com]

Re:My two cents (1)

JPriest (547211) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039728)

Suns are generally MUCH more expensive

Actually the Sun Blade 100 [sun.com] workstations start at $995.00.
The new iMacs start at $1,399 and the eMacs start at $1,099.

Re:My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039755)

Except for the fact that the Sun Blade sucks, that would be a good deal... Really who wants a crappy 500MHz machine, for about $1k? May be nice hardware, but way to expensive for a sloth.

Re:My two cents (1, Flamebait)

imperator_mundi (527413) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039566)

Motorola is better?

you can maybe appreciate the aesthetic of the powerPC architecture but that's philosophy, when it get in to the Collosseum of brute performance then Intel and AMD play the lions while G3/G4/G5 play the christians.

Re:Chirstians and Lions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039589)

Considering that the world is full of Christians whil Lions are on the decline, I'll assume by saying that Intel and AMD can take lions while motorola can take the christians means you agree. :)

Lions and Christians indead! [nathandial.com]

Re:My two cents (3, Insightful)

frunch (513023) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039675)

so it seems natural to couple them with good software

You mean like OS X? Honestly, I don't see much point in paying for a switch from a Unix-based machine to a Linux-based machine. (And a Linux-based machine that won't run iTunes, iMovie, or iPhoto)

Re:My two cents (3, Interesting)

timothy_m_smith (222047) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039771)

Is anyone really going to care if the XServe has the ability to run Linux? I really don't see the XServe as having that much value unless you really, really want to run Linux on a PowerPC rack-mounted server. The fact is that the XServe runs a bunch of IDE hard drives which would seem worthless for any real-world applications without any sort of RAID. What kind of business needs 480 Gb of non-fault tolerant disk space? In the end, why not just run on Intel or AMD hardware that will have much better software support.

Re:My two cents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039816)


Intel and AMD have fast hardware, (yes, the x86 is MUCH faster than PPC), so it seems natural to favour it. At my work, we use x86, stripped them of Windows and stuck FreeBSD on them. Works for me. Now this just saves us some money. More power to them, options are ALWAYS good.

How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (2)

jvmatthe (116058) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039360)

A while back I tried burning the Yellow Dog ISO images using a Linux x86 machine, but had a real painful time and never did get it to work. The image seemed to burn fine, but they weren't bootable on my Mac (9500/150).

I looked at Mandrake's stuff and they had a special statically built version of cdrecord that dealt with HFS+ support, or something like that. Still couldn't get it to fly. (I suppose I'd have the same problem with Mandrake, but I had really wanted to try Yellow Dog.)

Anyone know what the trick is to get bootable Yellow Dog CDs by burning them on an x86 Linux machine?

Re:How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039387)

The OldWorld ROM machines cannot "boot" from the ISO ... you need to use BootX. Plz review the Guide to Installation for more details:

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/support/installati on /guide.shtml

Re:How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039401)

Actually, Mandrake 8.2 for PPC is a *great* system, far better than Yellow Dog. The most surprising is it makes no difference with Mdk 8.2 for x86, which is particularly impressing, especially for installation! I think TerraSoft would have been more inspired to ship with Mandrake.

Re:How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (5, Informative)

pi radians (170660) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039502)

TerraSoft would never choose Mandrake over YellowDog... here's why [yellowdoglinux.com] . (Just read the title as to who makes YellowDog Linux.)

Re:How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039544)

Of course, I see... ;-)

Re:How to burn Yellow Dog ISO images? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039453)

Did you try mount -t iso9960 ydl.iso ydl_direcory and then burnign thd ydl_directory? You might need the -o loop option on there too.

better late in the story than never (-1)

Trolling Stones (587878) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039364)

Trolling Stones' lyrics quiz! - The Pink Floyd classic rock radio station staples version
See if you can get them all without using a search engine
You must provide the artist and song title for full credit.

1) did you ever wonder
why we had to run for shelter
when the promise of the brave
new world

2) did you exchange
a walk on part in the war
for a lead role in the cage

3) ice is forming
on the tips of my wings

4) the court will kindly show
the prisoner who stands before you
has been caught red handed showing feelings

5) now theres a look in your eye
like black holes in the sky

g to the oatse
c to the izzex
fo shizzle my nizzle enjoy the weekend my trolling brothas. the rest of you can suck a diseased baboons nipple

Re:better late in the story than never (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039524)

1. Goodbye Cruel World
2. Wish You Were Here
3. Learning To Fly
4. The Trial
5. Shine On You Crazy Diamond

I own the box set and every album they've done. Good quiz, though :) How about a Led Zepp one later ?

-Mark

[Trolling Stones] Close, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039553)

you got number 1 wrong. Different song from same album with a similar title.
I did a Zep quiz earlier [slashdot.org] , but since they have so many radio staples, I should easily be able to do another one without a lot of repeats.

I only own the staples of the Waters era - Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall. I probably should get some more, but I gotta get stock up on Hendrix first.

pricing.. and option? (1)

doubtless (267357) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039366)

I've noticed the Imac from Terra Soft is priced $1474 while the exact same offering from Apple store is $1399.

The Imac from Terra Soft comes with both OSX and Linux CDs, but do we get to opt out from OSX and get a rebate? OSX is great, but is Apple giving us a choice?

Re:pricing.. and option? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039405)

TSS increased the RAM to a min of 256 on all models we ship. The prices are identical to the Apple Store if you configure them the same.

Re:pricing.. and option? (1)

tjsulli (221191) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039841)

According to the Terra Soft site, OS X had to be left on in order not to void the warranty

I have to wonder why (5, Insightful)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039370)

Three years ago, this would have made sense. Apple has always made good hardware, putting good software on it makes a winning combination.

But now? OS X is a first-rate Unix, which I'm actually much happier using as a Unix than Linux.

Re:I have to wonder why (0, Offtopic)

mattdm (1931) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039406)

You might not care, but to some people, being "good" isn't good enough. They want to have the source code to the programs on which they depend.

You might not agree with this, but it's a pretty decent "why" for many.

Re:I have to wonder why (5, Informative)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039419)

You have the source code for everything that makes OS X a Unix. You don't have source code for the GUI, but that's not needed for running unix apps.
Further, any unix apps that require a GUI need X, and that can be installed independently of Aqua/Cocoa.

Re:I have to wonder why (2, Insightful)

Jobe_br (27348) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039464)

Incidentally, the original poster didn't say "good" .. the poster wrote "first-rate", which is exactly what it is. Whatever applications you have the source for on a Linux box will likely run, with much the same results, on an OS X box. Put it this way, if it runs in Linux and it runs in FreeBSD, chances are real good that it'll run in OS X.

Why dismiss an OS that contains a portion of closed-source proprietary code? That seems to be overly pedantic.

Re:I have to wonder why (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039620)

So long as you mind the sluggish performance, the non-standard GUI, the lack of timely updates, etc. Other than those, FIRST RATE. Ya.

Re:I have to wonder why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039760)

consider that Darwin/OS X is installed on more computers than all other Unices combined, and then rethink your "non-standard GUI" comment.

then eat a bag of shit and shoot yourself in the head.

Re:I have to wonder why (2)

mattdm (1931) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039778)

The original poster did, in fact, say "good software", in addition to saying "first-rate".

As for why one might dismiss an OS for containing a portion of closed-source code: for some people, it's an important moral issue. For others, they want to be able to see what's exactly going on *everywhere* -- having source to some bits isn't much good if you hit a severe bug that seems to be in the closed part. And, if you come to depend on some important closed code, you're always under the threat of having the rug pulled out from under you by new licensing, bankrupt companies, etc.

This can be debated endlessly, because both sides have merit.

PS: Sheesh, I'm not usually one to whine about moderation, but "off-topic" for responding directly to a question posed by a top-moderated post? *sigh*

Re:I have to wonder why (1)

ichimunki (194887) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039727)

Man, are you kidding? That GUI is completely lame, and other than that I don't see a single selling point for Mac OS X as a Unix. I'll stick with Debian, thanks.

And yeah, if you already have a Mac and you want Linux, YellowDog is the way to go-- YDL was my first Linux and I still use it daily... but I'm glad they didn't come out with this announcement sooner, I might have bought one... thankfully Apple's prices are such that I had to bide my time-- and I don't see where this is a value from TerraSoft, since it's not like I'm getting a piece of Apple hardware and then saving money by not having Mac OS installed. It's just the Microsoft tax all over again, only with a much cooler company involved.

It's a good idea, if you want to waste your Mac (5, Insightful)

krog (25663) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039372)

Slam me into -1, Flamebait land if you want.

But anyone who buys new Apple hardware and shuns Mac OS X in favor of Yellow Dog is throwing their money away. You can run Linux on PC hardware which is way cheaper than Apple hardware, and it will run better than Linux on PPC. Installing Linux or BSD on old Macs makes good sense sometimes, but when you have a top-quality Unix (OS X) which is more beautiful than any other Unix out there, why strive for second best?

Re:It's a good idea, if you want to waste your Mac (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039389)

yup, i posted that point seconds before you, and they modded me down. fucking cocksucking bitch moderators

Re:It's a good idea, if you want to waste your Mac (2, Funny)

Hobbex (41473) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039631)

You didn't say the magic words:

"I'll be modded down for this."

(btw, I'll be modded down for pointing this out.)

Re:It's a good idea, if you want to waste your Mac (2)

b1t r0t (216468) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039697)

I held out with my old PowerTower Pro and waited until I could get 10.1 running on it, rather than install Linux on it. I've already got Linux running on a couple of cheap PCs to do server stuff, and I really hate X-Windows as a windowing system (aside from its nifty remote capabilities which I never got far enough to use), something I won't even say about W2K.

Now I get the best of both worlds, except for Finder label colors, and I can even get to see those by running Finder 9.2 as a Classic app. Once I moved the IDE card into a 25MHz slot, the machine was rock solid running 10.1, more stable than it's ever been since I bought it. Of course it took $800 worth of hardware upgrades over the past year and a half to get it to the point where it could run 10.1, but it was worth it.

Why? (2, Troll)

DarkMan (32280) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039377)

I must admit that I'm a little blank on why anyone would particularly want a Mac runing Linux, to the point of buying it with Linux preinstalled.

I mean, yes they're nicely built, and they're decent price performance, but why not use a PC compatable? It would give you more choice in terms of OS vendor, and much of the commercial Linux is PC only. PowerPC is a nice chip, but an Athlon will be as quick, for similar money.

I suppose if you've got lots of PowerPC installed already, then you'd gain by matching architectures, but that's (IMO) unlikely.

Even in terms of numerically power, the Athlons with SSE2 are faster than the AltiVec (SSE2 does double precision, AltiVec doesn't), for similar money.

Don't get me wrong - someone selling Linux pre-installed is a Good Thing - I just can't see anything particularly gripping about Mac's pre-installed with Linux.

Re:Why? (1)

bmetzler (12546) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039687)

It would give you more choice in terms of OS vendor, and much of the commercial Linux is PC only. PowerPC is a nice chip, but an Athlon will be as quick, for similar money.

On AMD I have a choice of NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Linux, XP, and maybe Solaris. I'm pretty sure I haven't missed any.

On Mac, you get the choice of NetBSD, Linux, and OS X. Again, I don't think I missed any.

OpenBSD and FreeBSD really aren't that much different from NetBSD, FWIW. That means that you choose between XP and OS X. And I'd rather have OS X, hands down.

That's why I'd dual-boot a Mac, rather than an AMD.

-Brent

But why? (1, Troll)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039379)

OS X Server is awesome!

Far better admin tools [apple.com] than linux in my
opinion. But I run linux server b/c they are
significantly less expensive.

What is it with you. (-1, Troll)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039381)

OS X as all the stuff Linux has plus tons of other features and the most advanced GUI on earth.
Your paying a huge premium when buying a Mac in order to be able to have this so if you install Linux you're just throwing your money by the window.
Just buy a dual Athlon or even Pentium. It'll be cheaper, faster and I dare you to see a difference in operation.

Why? (1, Troll)

verch (12834) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039386)

This isn't a troll.. Honestly, why? The only reason I can think of to buy Apple hardware (unless you are a 16 year old girl that has to have a translucent pink computer) is for OS X and all the multimedia apps. I would think putting linux on a mac completely removes the value proposition. Its not like PPC hardware is whizier than x86 hardware any more.

I'd consider it . . . (1)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039388)

If the default configuration dual-booted OS X and YDL. But without OS X installed? Why bother?

Not on a server for the love of god. (1, Funny)

BoomerSooner (308737) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039471)

Whoops that last reboot went to OS X instead of YDL so our webserver is down.

It's a dual boot (5, Informative)

mblase (200735) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039390)

For the record, the store page says that Mac OS X is also preinstalled, and that YDLinux is available as a second OS. So this is just a bonus feature for the hackers.

That said, I'm not sure I see the point, except possibly bragging rights. If you want to get into *nix on a modern Mac running OS X, all you have to do is open a terminal window and go to it. (Yeah, I know it's BSD instead of Linux, but most of the functionality is the same. And if you really really want a Linux box, wouldn't it be safer to run it on its own cheap x86 hardware instead of having it take up hard drive space on your expensive PowerMac or iBook?)

Re:It's a dual boot (1)

Chris Croome (24340) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039599)

mblase said:

...I'm not sure I see the point... I know it's BSD instead of Linux, but most of the functionality is the same...

I'd have said the same thing a while ago, before I'd actually got my hands on a new Mac...

A few months ago I was lent an iBook (long term) and I thought 'great', a UNIX shell it'll be easy to do stuff on it just like it was a Linux box... then I realised that the shell had no syntax highlighting, it didn't have vim... etc it's like ssh'ing to a Solaris box when you are used to Linux -- not very friendly at all.

I decided that it would be far quicker to set the machine up so that it could boot YellowDog since I'd then have all the things I'm used to, (I have been using RedHat on my desktop for several years), rather than bothering to work out how to make OSX more like a Linux environment.

The iBook now triple boots, YellowDog, OSX and OS9 and it spends 99% of it's time in YellowDog.

The only thing that I don't like about the hardware is the one button mouse, but a cheap optical Logitech USB wheel mouse works in all the OSs so I never use the built in mouse.

YellowDog is mostly a good RedHat clone, with some improvements, like having apt-get. I don't know what their Gnome or KDE is like -- I use WindowMaker and I'm very happy with it.

Re:It's a dual boot (0)

NukeIear (307760) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039667)

I had the exact same issue when OSX first came out. But yesterday I just setup a tasty new dual 1Ghz G4 box with the latest (non-10.2) OSX, popped open a terminal and saw syntax highlighting has been added to the terminal app! As for installing vim, that's a pretty easy compile, or of course there is Fink.

Give OSX another try, I know I'll be.

Re:It's a dual boot (2)

cbowland (205263) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039792)

Actually, it does have have vim (but not gvim) and emacs (but not xemacs) if that is not quibbing too much with your critique.


But generally I agree, the shell could be improved. One of the other things that I used to miss was virtual desktops, but now with Space [osdir.com] even that complaint is fading.


Fink [sourceforge.net] has also done a lot for eliminating any need to boot into a true "Linux" including adding xwindows in rootless mode so that a remote display can be exported to appear on the mac.

What a joke (-1, Flamebait)

t0ny (590331) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039402)

I heard a good joke- Mac Server. hahahashah ahahahahah ahahaha ahahahahah!!!! ahahah haha. oh, that was good. Anyway, I looked at the Xserver specs, and it is a joke even hardware-wise. Nice, cute little glorified desktop they call a server. Come on, it has fricken IDE hard drives. Even low end junky servers at least have the option of running hardware RAID-5, but not this cheap POS. oh well, as long as it looks good sitting next to your stereo, right? give you something to store the files from the iLamp on, since you cant expand it in any way.

Re:What a joke (1)

rberton (456041) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039426)

Morons!

Hands down the 1Ghz PowerPC chip is the fastest, most stable chip in it's price range. Most servers of this type are used to run application servers anyway and they are not usually disk intensive as the database would be somewhere else. If the Java implementation for PPC linux was just a little better I would use them for our app servers.

Re:What a joke (1, Offtopic)

Anonvmous Coward (589068) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039567)

"Hands down the 1Ghz PowerPC chip is the fastest, most stable chip in it's price range."

I dunno about that, I'm still getting 0fps with GTAIII on my Mac. :D

Re:What a joke (2)

ptomblin (1378) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039712)

There is a java implementation for PPC Linux? Where?

I have a TiBook, and it's easily the best laptop on the market. Huge screen, light weight, 5 hour battery life. But I use Linux at home as my main desktop environment (even though it means I have to drag out the laptop every time somebody sends me the URL for a quicktime movie or something).

A long time ago, I ran Linux on an Alpha, and it was extremely annoying. There was no decent native web browser (this was pre-Mozilla), the Java was pre-alpha quality at best, none of the Linux apps was as stable as the Intel Linux equivalents. I swore to never do that again. But now that there is a decent open source web browser and maybe a JDK available, I'm wavering.

Re:What a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039748)

IBM offers one. It isn't "certified" for Macs but seemed to work fine when I tried it.

But its a Mac! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039474)

You see, its an Apple product. So that means that they can make shitty hardware, and the blind zealot idiots will lap it up. Steve Jobs could start selling broken 486 smeared in his own shit, and the Mac zealots would proclaim it to be the sexiest computer in the entire world.

I just don't get it. Why are Apple designing their computers to appeal to 16 year old girls, graphic designers and gays. O.K, the last two are redundent, but you get the picture. Why do that, though? 16 year old girls don't exactly have massive computer purchasing power, and graphic designers are more concerened about their cars. Apple are trying to sell to people who have no money, or don't give a shit.

Which leaves the question of the zealots. Who the fuck are you people? I can't believe that you're part of the target market; 16 year old girls don't post on Slashdot, and the graphic designers are looking at car magazines. So who are? Are Apple employees that bored, that they have to troll Slashdot in support of Steve Jobs' latest crap-tacular bullshit session? Are you all trying to stop the inevitable slide of your stock options? Did you take acid in the 60's, and damaged your brain? All of you, that is? I'd really like to know.

Re:What a joke (2, Informative)

nattt (568106) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039504)

You've not used one, have you?

Rendering tests using 3delight showed a 7 times speed improvement over a Linux Total Impact Briq. The Xserve was dual 1ghz processors over a Briq which is single 500mhz. It's very stable - I really tried to crash it with renders way too big for it (the test model only had 512 ram) and the remote management software is excellent.

Kudos (3, Interesting)

rberton (456041) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039403)

I run YDL 2.2 and before that I ran 2.1 on a QuickSilver (867 Mhz) PowerMac. I have been running glitch free for over a year now and my uptime is currently 85 days (power outage caused a reboot).

The one drawback is that setup was a PITA. I think it's great that Terra Soft is selling these pre-installed to take some of the ass sores out of the setup. Also Kudos to Apple for allowing them to resell with another OS on the machine.

price time * Timecost (5, Insightful)

SuperCal (549671) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039415)

A friend of mine bought a base model iBook online and had it mail ordered home. By the time it reached his home he had already downloaded and burned a linux dist ISO at my house. We had that baby running (by we I mean he) linux in less then a hour. That resaler wants a almost a $200 premium for installing free software. I think spending a hour is worth saving $200.

Re:price time * Timecost (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039469)

The prices are the SAME as those provided by Apple ... but the configurations are different than the default Apple configs. Look at the specs --the RAM is a min of 256 while Apple defaults to 128 on some models. The drives have been increased to 80MB on the desktop models, etc.

Re:price time * Timecost (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039754)

The drives have been increased to 80MB on the desktop models, etc.

Because everyone knows that you'll never need more than 80MB.....

Do you really want to deal with a company that leaves a typo like that on their order page?

Okay, I gotta ask... (2)

Silverhammer (13644) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039427)

...are Linux and BSD really that different? Different enough to make someone go to this much extra effort?

Sure, this would have made sense a couple years ago, but now? Do you really hate the Aqua interface that much?

Re:Okay, I gotta ask... (2, Insightful)

rberton (456041) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039462)

Yes and no.

Aqua is nice and all, but it is extremely heavy especially for all day use. I prefer something that is quick and lightweight and cannot get that behavior out of Aqua. Linux gives me more choices in that arena.

Re:Okay, I gotta ask... (2, Informative)

sloveless (518479) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039572)

Gnome is available for OSX. http://news.gnome.org/gnome-news/1006658566/index_ html As is KDE. http://dot.kde.org/1022869694/ There are a few more here: http://www.xinetd.org/pub/darwin/X11/ You're really not limited to Aqua.

Re:Okay, I gotta ask... (1)

skribble (98873) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039645)

Linux gives me more choices in that arena.

How exactly does Linux give you more choices? Almost everything you can run on Linux (PPC anyway) will compile and run fine on OS X. You can even run X instead on Aqua if you'd like, and then switch into Aqua if you want to use Photoshop or Word or whatever
I just don't see the sense in this.

The only thing I could think of as to why you'd run Linux on a Mac is either a) you have an older Mac that won't run OS X, or b) You think it make's you special to tell all your friends you run Linux on your Mac (BTW it doesn't).

Why? (3, Troll)

OS24Ever (245667) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039437)

Seriously, I'm not flaming or trolling. I have an iMac, and I have intel hardware. I've run Linux on Intel Hardware, and I've run OS X.

Why would I want to replace a unix based OS with an excellent user interface, support for things like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and heck even Flash/Shockwave plugins. None of this is on Linux (unfortunately)

Now, on the XServe, this could be cool, but on a iBook, PowerBook, iMac or Power Mac I just don't get it.

Re:Why? (1)

Rydia (556444) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039577)

Flash and Shockwave work for NS 4 and gecko-based browsers. GIMP is every bit as good as photoshop (with my PERSONAL exception that it doesn't make my wacom tablet whiz and bang like PS does). From there you have HTML stuff and Aqua. If you want to do HTML in linux, there's nothing really stopping you, and unless you REALLY like Dreamweaver/others and their extra stuff, it really doesn't seem like it would be much of a difference.

That said, I don't get it either. I'm just guessing based on the pretty even functionality that they're hoping some people really don't like Aqua....

Re:Why? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039654)

As I pointed out to others, there are plenty of reasons for using Linux over Mac OS X. First of all speed, on the same hardware YellowDog is significantly faster for server-type tasks. It has better disk and I/O throughput. In addition, Linux is Open Source, while Mac OS X is closed source (the other BSD variant known as Darwin is open source, but will Apple support your Mac running Darwin like they do OSX? I didn't think so). Being Open Source automatically gives you all the benefits of the entire community: quick defect bugs, excellent software development support, etc. Slashdot people know this intrinsically. And of course there is also the side benefit of not being tied to a SINGLE vendor for your hardware AND software. Competition is a wonderful thing.

Older machines? (3, Insightful)

saintlupus (227599) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039444)

I wonder if they'll expand their product line to older machines at some point. I love running OS X on my iMac, but Yellow Dog absolutely 0wnz my 7200/120.

It just seems that exploiting the main strength of Linux/PPC, it's ability to maximize the potential of older hardware, would be a sound business move.

--saint

Re:Older machines? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039822)

They are a reseller though, they can't sell something that doesn't exist. If it isn't part of Apple's current product line they would have a hard time acquiring their stock.

Why would they do that? (0, Troll)

MarvinMouse (323641) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039470)

I love Linux and all, but why ship a quality system with Linux when you can ship it with OS X.

OS X is an absolutely amazing OS, and it has almost all the features Linux has.

If you are going to ship comps with Linux, ship PCs with it pre-installed.

"Do you wish it ran Linux?" (2)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039575)

Actually, no, I don't. I don't think I've ever found myself wishing computers that weren't designed and built around one particular operating system were able to run Linux, or any other OS. I consider myself a better, saner person for this.

What is so bad about Mac OS X?

- A.P.

Re:"Do you wish it ran Linux?" (1)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039842)

IMO nothing is bad about OS X. for me it is simply about learning curves. I like the hardware but I *really* do not want to take the time to learn a new OS that is why if I where to get enough money to buy some of Apple's sweet sweet hardware I would put Debian on it.

using linux on mac right now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039586)

I am typing this message on an ibook2 running Gentoo linux right now and I am very happy about this combination.
Hardware: bit pricey, small but comfortable ideal for travelling, nice screen, long battery use (4 to 5 hours) and it has almost no features I don't want but have to pay anyway as most x86 laptops of good structural quality.
Software: OK, OSX is a lot more beautiful than linux, but beauty is just not enough reason to leave linux with all its cherished tools and features behind. Installing linux on this was also a lot easier than I had feared.

The the geek within me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039601)

The geek within me shouts - Benchmarks! I want Benchmarks!

A/UX (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039618)

I wish Apple would let it out, or port it to the PPC. A/UX, IMHO, is much nicer than OS X. It does an excelletn job of being UNIX and being Macintosh all at once. It shiped with an Xserver right away, that could be used by its self, or under Finder to run X applications. OS X, as far as I know, forces one to go a lookin' for it. Mostly, i jsut dislike Aqua. it's much too candied.

um... why? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039619)

OS X is light-years better than any of the crap that the Open Shit community has come up with.

Interesting happenings in the PPC world lately... (2, Informative)

Amiga Trombone (592952) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039637)

I think this is great news, it's good that Apple is at least benignly tolerating Linux on their platform, even if not actively encouraging it.

I don't see the value of this so much for Apple, but for the Linux/PPC platform in general. Linux PPC, unlike OS X, does not run uniquely on the Apple platform, other implementations are possible. And there have been some interesting developments in the PPC/Power world lately, for example:

IBM's newly announced [com.com] desktop PPC processor. Possibly this will be the successor to the G4 in Apple's offerings.

Also, the new Amiga [amiga.com] platform will be PPC based, and also runs Linux. Whether this new platform will have any substantial success is still open to speculation, but it will be an interesting experiment, whatever the outcome.

Also, IBM is looking to eventually migrate their mainframe [com.com] line over to the Power architechture, probably starting with the Power6.

It would be nice to see some competition to the x86 in the commodity processor market. I was ready to write off PPC/Power as doomed, but the recent flurry of activity on that front has caused me to re-evaluate my position. And an OS like Linux which can run across all the various implementations of the architecture would be great for encouraging it's propogation. Imagine applications that are binary compatable across everything from your iBook to a mainframe.

But (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039644)

Could someone sell me a mac with a 3 button mouse pre installed

No. No, I haven't. (5, Informative)

hatless (8275) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039648)

No, I can't say that I've wished Apple's Xserve ran Linux. OS X is a more polished OS than Linux is, especially on this hardware. It can run essentially all the same software and then some, it has a better JVM and far, far better administration tools for everything from directory services and Apache to Samba. It's got great monitoring tools and drivers for its hardware, true plug-and-play support for things like Firewire RAID arrays, unified management of SMB, Appleshare and NFS file sharing, and commercial grade on-site support for all of the above.

By going to Linux on it, you get rid of the nice development tools, you sacrifice a lot of the Mac OS 8.x/9.x application compatibility and all of the OS X compatibility. You trade wonderful, richly-featured and consistently designed distributed admin tools for things like webmin. And you give up several avenues for support.

It's not like PPC Linux will let you run the many x86 commercial packages out there. So unless you're a Linux shop already and someone has given you a free Xserve, why put Linux on it? Surely you can find 1U hardware with comparable performance and more mature Linux driver support for a lot less money, no?

So no. No, I haven't ever wanted to run Linux on an Xserve.

There can be reasons (5, Insightful)

Sloppy (14984) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039650)

There's multiple posts where people question running Linux when MacOS is already there, and in many ways, just plain better than Linux.

This is pretty much equivalent to saying, even in the context of x86 hardware, "Why would anyone run Linux when they could run FreeBSD?" or even "Why would anyone run FreeBSD when they could run Linux?" Just because something is good doesn't mean alternatives are necessarily stupid.

Linux does have features that Darwin doesn't have, BTW. Linux4Video, for example (not that I've ever got it to work on my hardware ;-). It's probably not important for 99% of the population, but no need to call the other 1% of the population stupid.

Re:There can be reasons (1)

skribble (98873) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039680)

"Why would anyone run Linux when they could run FreeBSD?"

Wow... did you really want to open that can o' worms? Let the battle begin...

Value-Added Keyboard Needed for Apple Laptops (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#4039682)

The most important "added value" anybody can provide for Apple laptop hardware is to fix the broken keyboard.

Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.

I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need , not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.

Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.

Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design [slashdot.org] . It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.

There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. [debian.org] For Mac OS X users, uControl [versiontracker.com] works. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design [slashdot.org] of the ADB keyboard.

Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 10 years [google.com] . I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)

Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.

The one button thing (2)

Laplace (143876) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039739)

A while back I installed Windowmaker on my iBook and spent a bit of time configuring the desktop to behave well with only one mouse button.

Except for x-cut-and-paste I didn't miss having multiple buttons.

FYI, folks.

Geforce4 (1, Offtopic)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 12 years ago | (#4039807)

I'd love to run a dual flat panel PowerMac, but it requires the whooptie Ge-whiz-force4 Unubtanium or whatever. I can't find any Linux info except "not supported" for any currently shipping video other than the Radeon. Is support for this setup on the horizon?

Anyone know where I can get any info?

-Peter
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