How long ago did you last assemble a computer?
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so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:3)
But I'm thinking of building one again. How exactly does one go about it nowadays? DJB's computer building guides [cr.yp.to] used to be a nice starting point, but he stopped updating them in 2009. Is there something like that, but with current-gen hardware?
(Fwiw, I'm interested more in workstation usage, not a gaming machine.)
Re: so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4, Insightful)
Tom's Hardware, & anandtech.com
Re:so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4, Informative)
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http://www.logicalincrements.c... [logicalincrements.com]
Re:so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4, Informative)
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Well mostly I want a good starting point written by someone who's looked into it (like the DJB ones above). That involves: 1) parts that work together and have been successfully used together, preferably under Linux, by someone other than me; and 2) parts that fit at a good point on the price/performance curve.
Sure, I could dive into separate reviews of every individual component and piece them together myself, but that's more research than I want to do. :)
Re:so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:5, Informative)
Ah, okay. Well I'll share with you my current build:
Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
Intel i7-4790K CPU: $340 (I was gonna go for the i7-4770, but MicroCenter had the 4790K on sale for $280, and I jumped at it)
Gigabyte Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H: $165 (make sure you upgrade your BIOS to version F8--with F6 it was rebooting every couple of minutes)
Corsair Hydro H60 cooler: $60
SeaSonic 650-Watt G-Series power supply: $100 (WAAAY overkill for my system, but whatever. I chose it based on Tom's Hardware PSU tiering guide [tomshardware.com]--wanted something close to the top with 600+ watts at less than $100)
G.SKILL Trident X Series RAM: 2x8GB for $165
SSDs and HDDs are kind of a personal choice in my opinion. I only buy Samsung SSDs and only buy WD HDDs, but other people will swear by different brands. SSDs are at about $0.50/GB
My case is the Cooler Master HAF-932, which has a metric ton of fans, great access ports and a large footprint. I think they've been discontinued in favor of the HAF-X: $170.
You might not need a dedicated GPU with that CPU/mobo combo--I only use it to run Direct3D on a Windows VM and run my displays off the IGFX. Depends on whether you're a gamer, in which case, consult your games for the recommended specs. I can tell you nVidia cards usually work decently well, but you have to futz with getting the correct drivers (proprietary vs. nouveau) and getting everything to play nice in your xorg.conf.
Any optical drive will do. I think mine cost $20. Make sure none of the online reviews complain of bloatware.
Keyboard, mouse, monitor--anything should be fine.
I think that's it! Total cost comes out to ~$1200. But it has top-notch performance regarding stuff like video editing and scientific computing. Linux compatibility is fine, though you'll need to use the alsa-daily PPA to get audio working, and a dedicated video card can, as previously stated, take some work to set up.
Re:so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4, Informative)
$30 - IO Crest SATA III 4 Port PCI-e 2.0 x1 Card with Low ProfileBracket (SI-PEX40064) - motherboard only has 2 onboard sata ports
$50 - AMD Athlon 5350 APU, 2.05Ghz, AD5350JAHMBOX
$85 - HyperX 8GB Kit (2x4GB) 1600MHz DDR3 PC3-12800
$35 - GIGABYTE GA-AM1M-S2H AM1 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
$60 - Antec EarthWatts EA-380D Green 380 Watt 80 PLUS BRONZE Power Supply
$125 - 120G SSD Samsung 840
$250 - 2x 3T WD Red
$80 - Silverstone Tek SG02B-F-USB3.0 ABS/SECC Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case
Ubuntu 14.04 server. ZFS for storage.
Its not the fastest rig, but quad core, plenty of RAM for a minecraft server, owncloud, gitlab, and plex. Still working on mythtv setup, but might scrap that soon.
With the all 3 drives spun up and server idle, it pulls 39W. With 2 3T drives spun down, its only 19W. I'm very happy with this as my home server.
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If your time is valuable and you don't care about the exact specs you are probablly better off buying a prebuilt.
The big advantage to building your own is you can select compromises that don't often appear in prebuilts. For example if you care about fast boot/app launch times but don't do anything with massive CPU requirements you can have a SSD as a boot drive but have a low end processor.
With big brand prebuilts you have to watch for non-standard components. If you are the type that upgrades gradually rat
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If you're a Linux user that occasionally needs Windows for a few proprietary tasks then it's not a bad deal having the OEM license.
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Uh... no. If I wanted to play games, I would have invested in an actual decent FX card rather than the cheapest POC I could find that would allow me to run D3D. I use Windows for three small applications whose authors never bothered to write Linux software or ensure Wine compatibility. Two of the three are pieces of software that came bundled with specialty USB devices.
As for me being a "Linux whore," I don't pay for Linux, and Linux certainly doesn't pay me, so I think that analogy fails.
Re: so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4)
Tbh if you find adding a ppa, refreshing the package cache and performing an update a challenging task, linux plainly isn't for you. For those of us who don't find this 30 second procedure paralyzingly difficult, we will continue to use a good POSIX compliant free OS without regard for your feelings about it.
You can feel free to have to run separate upgrade procedures for every single piece of hardware and each individual application over the life of your machine, to be subject to the will of MS for your desktop environments features, and work around the lack of POSIX compliance as long as it suits you.
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Tech Report generally has good recommendations: http://techreport.com/review/2... [techreport.com]
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Don't forget AMD (Score:2)
Don't forget it's 2014 now (Score:2)
Only if you use it that way.
Even a kids toy that came out years ago - the Nintendo DS - had multiple cores so if your code can benefit from being multithreaded but is not then you have some problems you should fix before pointing fingers at hardware.
hard to do real multithreading with python (Score:2)
Only if you use it that way.
CPython (the most common python interpreter) has the "global interpreter lock" which means that even if you have multiple threads only one of them can be executing python bytecode at a time.
What's the point this century? (Score:2)
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It depends on what you mean by work station usage and what is important to you.
I now always build my machines to be as silent as possible, even if it means a significant sacrifice to horsepower as I have a machine filled with fans for heavy lifting in my garage.
I also need limited storage in my workstation so it always gets an SSD. At the moment I am using the amd FM2 integrated GPU systems for my work stations. Never going to set the gaming world on fire and will lose in performance to an Intel I7. But
Never been easier (Score:2)
You only need dedicated video cards these days for recent 3D gaming, very high end CAD, or more than two displays. Even decoding compressed high quality video and pushing it out a HDMI connector something fairly standard motherboard graphics can do. Dedicated sound cards are something only musicians worry about now.
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Dedicated sound cards are something only musicians worry about now.
Even then, we've mostly eschewed them for "audio interface devices," since most discrete "sound cards" don't have a 1/4" jack nor XLR.
On more thing - cases are so much better (Score:2)
Re:so, I'm in the more than 8 yrs ago camp (Score:4, Informative)
I just built mine last week. That was a first for me in ~7 years. The box it just replaced was around 4 years old (needless to say, I'm not a gamer either). I went back and forth with TomsHardware, Newegg, etc. reviews narrowing it down. Ended up with a fairly cheap system ($500'ish) that does me fine. All items with a cost came from Microcenter:
Case: Gutted system but reused my previous Asus microATX case.
PSU: Reused same PSU. Little 400w thing seems to be okay. It's not powering much.
RAM: 4x4GB sticks, bought within the last year when I upgraded from 8GB. Reused those also.
Mainboard: H97M-Plus ($114)
CPU: Intel i5-4590, quad-core@3.2Ghz up from my previous i5-650 dual core. ($200).
Video: Integrated CPU video card. I'm fine with it.
SDD: Samsung 250GB EVO840 ($139)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda, 2TB ($78. I don't need much space. Coupled with my old 1TB drive, I'm good for awhile)
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Actually, this one uses very little power, or so my electric bill informed me (and it runs 24/7), and doesn't make much heat. It's a lowly P4-1.8GHz, and unlikely to be replaced any time soon. Conversely the P4-3GHz uses enough that it's powered off when not in use (it has a specialty job and is not readily replaceable), and it runs a lot hotter.
And that's one reason I was never a fan of AMD -- I know someone who actually used an AMD box to heat her bedroom!!
When I spend money on new stuff, my method is to
I don't assemble computers. (Score:2)
Every piece of expensive hardware I touch that isn't explicitly designed for human input has a tendency to get expensively destroyed in new and exciting ways.
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Hooking components up to the wrong voltage(for example) has a tendency to go straight past "fixable" to "buy a new one".
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I don't even know how you can do that with a modern(last 20 years) computer.
Re:I don't assemble computers. (Score:5, Funny)
Well, darn it, it turns out that my graphics card wasn't supposed to be plugged into a wall socket.
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Re:I don't assemble computers. (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes you have to go really out of your way to fuck things up properly.
Re:I don't assemble computers. (Score:5, Interesting)
In my case, the first time was roughly 1993. I had this old hard drive that kept making knocking sounds and was unreadable, and my first thought was, "Let's just go ahead and see exactly why that MOLEX connector should only go in one direction."
I shaved the corners to match the bevel of the other side, and fired that thing up. While I was happy with the result, I can't help but think it would have been a little more exciting if the drive was functional. Some pops and smoke is great, but I was hoping for annihilation.
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Some pops and smoke is great, but I was hoping for annihilation.
Next time, in addition to flipping the plug, wire it straight into the transformer.
And turn it on with a looong stick.
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About that same era I was in our lab and had hooked up a SCSI drive by stretching out a four foot long 50 pin ribbon cable to the drive, which was sitting on another table. The cable had no visible registration marks on the 25x2 pin connector, and as the cable was rainbow colored, it didn't have a "pin 1" wire that stood out. I thought I had it right, but I wasn't paying all that much attention. I turned on the power, and a few seconds later, one of the center conductors drooped out of the cable, accompa
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Well, darn it, it turns out that my graphics card wasn't supposed to be plugged into a wall socket.
Actually, that should work just fine. But you did remember to use only quality Monster-brand cables, right?
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You end up with 12V connected straight to ground and vice versa on most of the pins. The connectors do have keyed pins, but it doesn't take too much extra force to plug the wrong one in. I've seen the results from plenty of otherwise bright people frying motherboards, GPUs, and power supplies.
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Cables for USB headers. Usually flat 4- or 5-pin connectors with no keys, although these days the 8- or 10-pin versions (2 USB ports) are (sometimes) keyed.
Plug one (or two) in the wrong way round, or worse, one of each, and I can tell you from experience it doesn't end well. Expensive, but not well.
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Glad to see you use the term 'assemble' (Score:5, Interesting)
Because I BUILT my first personal computer in 1976. This involved individual IC's, a wire wrap board, making my own PC boards for power and display, lots of soldering, switches to load and store programs, and LED's. 6502 processor and 1,000 bits of RAM, baby ! I mock anyone who thinks that plugging in a few parts is 'building a computer'.
Re:Glad to see you use the term 'assemble' (Score:5, Funny)
You neglected to add the obligatory "Now get off my lawn." I think that this post definitely merits that.
Re:Glad to see you use the term 'assemble' (Score:5, Funny)
I wouldn't call the flower garden in front of the old age hospital a lawn.
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And no one build bridges, they just assemble one from parts!
Re:Glad to see you use the term 'assemble' (Score:5, Insightful)
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Did you build the ICs? Though so.
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8 MegaBytes in 1976? Utter rubbish.
The 8080 had a 16-bit address bus and an 8-bit data bus. It couldn't handle more than than 64 kbytes of RAM. Yes, there were ways of getting more than 64 KB on a system but that involved very expensive memory bank switching. I remember lusting after a 1 megabyte S-100 bus board that was only $3,000, until I found that the memory bank switching made it almost impossible to run CP/M programs that needed more than 32 KB memory.
But 8 megabytes? Absolutely no way. Heck, t
Depends on definitions (Score:2)
If the intent of the question is more along the lines of "When did you last purchase components for a desktop computer and put them all together yourself (i.e., sticking p
You don't assemble computers... (Score:5, Funny)
Please don't take my nerd card (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Please don't take my nerd card (Score:4, Insightful)
This makes me wonder if Carl Sagan ever built his own telescope. If you don't grind your own optics, then the level of difficulty is comparable to building a PC since you're just assembling components. When I was into astronomy I never built a scope.
There is a quote that goes something like, "computer science is about computers like astronomy is about telescopes". Googling that is left as an exercise. Wait, maybe I should build my own search engine.
In other words, don't worry about it. The NC should remain in your possession.
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You can do computer science just with paper and pen. That is entirely feasible and totally common in any computer science curriculum at any halfway decent university. Oh, you thought that computer science = programming. Well, yeah, no... it isn't and technically you can program without a computer too. You just can't run your programs.
Performance seems to have plateaued (Score:3)
I think it's more a value trade (Score:3)
I think it really depends on the game. I've seen this go both way where the i7s significantly outperform the i5s, and vice versa. The other advantage of a faster CPU is that it will open up so that the graphics card is sure to be performing at full potential.
This site shows the i7 leading the i5 in most games by a tiny-to-small margin
http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules... [ocaholic.ch] (random site I found on Google search):
Ultimately I think the big win for the i5 is you get nearly identical performance of an i7 (for a ga
Been a while (Score:5, Interesting)
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I had the itch, and actually worked on one last night.
Ignore it. Ignore that itch. It's not worth it.
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not mutually exclusive (Score:2)
A laptop is useful for lots of things, but when I really want to get some work done, I need screen real estate and a full keyboard and mouse.
My main compute is a laptop with a docking station. It has external keyboard, mouse, dual monitors (can connect via hdmi, displayport, vga, or dvi), audio, networking, etc.
The only downside to my laptop is that it maxes out at 16GB of RAM and the CPU is more limited than what you could put in a power-hungry desktop. But the peripherals are all supported.
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man sometimes I just miss my free time before I started raising a family...
This makes me both sad for my fallen nerd / geek brethren and reaffirms my decision to not have kids.
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Since the i7 (Score:2)
Update cycles (Score:5, Insightful)
I build my own computer rigs. I have been doing that for over 15 years.
I just rarely do it at once. You have working sticks of RAM, old hard disk, case, PSU and GPU. You just swap the CPU and motherboard for better. Or buy a new graphics card when they get cheaper as the next Battlefield approaches.
The components of my PC are constantly evolving. But I don't see why I have to buy everything at once? Upgradeability is one of the main reasons I build my custom setup(s).
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I tend to buy boxes with fairly high end parts (not expensive, just high quality), and when I built them I did the same. High end enough that I really didn't have to upgrade until everything was no longer "state of the art", so no parts to recycle in.
My ooold computer has a Q9550 and 8 gigs of ram, just as I ordered it. It is still pretty usable as a daily backup video player, and not bad for midline gaming like Portal 2, Goat Simulator, etc. Upgraded the video 3 years ago, $150-175 for what was then a st
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Because some thing don't upgrade well individually.
Say you want a new processor. Unfortunately, that sometimes requires a new mainboard, and new RAM. The new mainboard might require a new power supply, and since the old PC case doesn't have front-panel USB 3.0 connectors, you're getting a new case, too.
While you're at it, you might as well upgrade your video card and hard drives, and at that point you've ended up with an almost completely new PC.
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I'd call a motherboard replacement for all essential purposes a new build. You need to fasten it to the case and all those annoying little case cables (power/reset/LEDs etc.), add CPU, RAM, power cables, all extension cards, hard drives cables and so on again so you're pretty much doing all the work just in the same case with the same parts. The rest I'd call upgrades.
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I put my PC together so long ago I can't remember how long. It's the same with the broom I've been using since God knows when.
OK, I'll admit I've changed the head a few times, and occasionally the handle too, but trust me it's still sweeping as good as ever!
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That's how I always did it. But there's always the 'expensive cycle' where the architecture changes and you have to buy a new processor motherboard and RAM all at the same time. When we moved from AGP to PCIx video cards was a particularly expensive.I think that time even the power supply had to be replaced. I only kept the case and drives.
Too bad we can't do this as easily with cars.
Never Again, or at least, Not Until I Forget Again (Score:2)
Exactly two years ago (Score:2)
I just looked up my receipts out of curiosity. Bought the parts in July of 2012. I built pretty close to the edge so it still kicks ass today. Plays current games on triple 2560x1440 monitors. It's not going to get a bump until I can do three 4k displays reasonably.
My last complete build was April 2011 (Score:2)
I don't build computers at work - we buy preassembled Dells or Apples - and my last de-novo build at home was in April 2011 not long after Sandy Bridge was released. My i5-2500K chip is fast enough (OC'd to 4.3 GHz on air) that I don't think I'll want an upgrade for a long while yet, and the only minor upgrade that system's received is a newer video card. At some point, budget permitting, I'll switch in an SSD for the boot volume.
today (Score:2)
My bitfenix phenom case just arrived an hour ago from new egg/lasership.
4790k on a gigabyte z97 matx, 16GB, gtx590 and 1.5TB ssd
Re: today (Score:2)
About a week ago i also upgraded the CPU in my laptop (Pentium something to core i5). Hooray computers!
It's variable... (Score:2)
Actually, my computers are always in a constant state of re-assembly...my "newest" computer has some components that are 3 year old! And my oldest computer has components that are new in the past year.
Just last weekend (Score:2)
Microcontrollers (Score:2)
I voted 2-3 years, because this is when I last assembled a PC. Then I have realized that the microcontrollers are also computers. I guess I have built 5 to 10 Atmel AVR-based boards for various DYI purposes during the last year.
About 3 to 6 a year (Score:2)
I build them for friends and relatives who want quality equipment.
For myself, about every two to three years.
Constantly evolving (Score:2)
Home-Built PVR (Score:2)
A simple PVR doesn't need the bells and whistles of newer computers. I recently purchased the components and assembled one.
Universal (Score:2)
If you can assemble simple furniture PCs look easy (Score:2)
There used to be a big difference between the price of assembled computers and parts. Also computer assembly is now easier than putting together a flat pack coffee table.
Maybe in 1995 but there are not many parts to put together now.
Moved to laptops (Score:2)
Upgrading laptops every year. Desktop is still a dusty Core 2 Duo. So, 7 years ago at least.
Less often than I used to but at least 2 or 3/yr (Score:2)
Friends / family / coworkers / friends of friends etc - they definitely need LESS PC's than they used to, sadly. Tablets, phones, laptops have eaten Desktop marketshare for sure, no doubt about it.
I don't know how many here did the same but I'd often sell 6 to 9 month old hardware to someone and upgrade for example. My personal upgrades have been less frequent due to the downturn in PC demand. (yes they knew it was used)
I'm building one tomorrow actually - second one for the year, but I will say I've co
Alternate title: (Score:2)
With Solder? (Score:2)
The last time I assembled a computer [wikipedia.org] from individual electrical components was in 1982.
two lan ports on my x58 and they both go south (Score:2)
Man that was a hard one to trouble shoot, ended up using a network adapter I've kicked around for years.
Yep rebuilt, as I like the ASUS rather than the EVGA so switched over; and the lan card isn't as fast as what was on the board.
Love the joke category (Score:2)
Quake 3 was a game people really did build a system for. Good times.
Been a while (Score:2)
Once it got to the point that you could buy a decent (read: non-gaming) machine for about the same as the parts would cost, I quit building. The last one I built was an AMD K6-2/450 for close to $1,000 and the first one I bought was a refurbished 1 GHz PIII HP Pavilion for I think $850, to which I added an ATI TV-Wonder video capture card and a 32 MB video card with DVI to drive a used 18.1" IBM flat panel that I picked up for a song. (I think $800 at the time.) It came with Windows ME and I "upgraded" to 9
8088 with clock generator chip (Score:2)
I designed and built my first embedded microprocessor project (for remote metering) using an 8088 and a 8284 clock generator chip, with some EPROM and static RAM back in the early 1980s.... I've been working on computers ever since.
Never (Score:4, Insightful)
Q: How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. That's a hardware problem.
I was a SOFTWARE test engineer for 30+ years and a programmer before that (starting in the early 1960s). I understand what many of the hardware components do, but that is the limit of my knowledge.
1975: original MITS Altair (8080) (Score:3)
In 1975 I assembled a MITS Altair kit. I still have the machine, though I have not powered it up in many years. Discrete wiring of the front panel was memorably tedious and error-prone.
The machine had 256 bytes of static RAM on a board separate from the CPU board.
MITS later sold a 4K DRAM board, which if I recall correctly, tried to rely upon RC timed one-shots for its timing, and an incredibly poor PCB layout with numerous jumper wires. This board was a total botch. MITS later came out with a different board designed with synchronous logic that might have been better. Eventually MITS and others came out with larger static RAM boards that worked reliably.
My coolest project with that machine was to use an A/D / D/A board and some code hand-assembled to binary (and keyed in through the front panel switches), to make an audio delay line, whose delay time was controlled by the front panel switches. Running a radio straight into one side of stereo headphones, and the delayed audio into the other side, made for an amusing experience.
Homebrew - still more fun (Score:3)
My most recent build was a Core i5 ITX with 16 GB of over-spec DDR and a GeForce GTX 550 Ti I had sitting around. I don't care about the latest games; I'd rather code and take breaks for Civilization or BSG: Diaspora or Nethack or some interesting moddable or open source game. Ubuntu and Arch Linux are my OS's, with Crossover for the occasional dip into gaming. Windows shall never touch its bare metal. KVM with pass-through to its Nvidia graphics is a godsend. I don't care what the headlines say, Linux desktops have been my favorite since the late 90's. Macs tend to win for laptops, but this could soon change. Nowadays, I'm more comfortable staying Unix-like only in my computing than ever.
If only Linux music players had the level of smart playlists that iTunes does, and support for more professional grade audio/MIDI interfaces (this means USB doesn't count). That would, for me, be perfect.
I want an FPGA in my next machine.
no longer seems worth it (Score:3)
I used to build my own, because that was the best way to get the specs I wanted at a good price. Especially since I run Linux. But I'm a software guy, and have always considered futzing with the hardware to be a necessary evil, rather than a goal on its own. Once I was able to get off-the-shelf machines that met my needs, I happily stopped building my own.
I voted 6-8 years ago, because the machine I bought about eight years ago needed some additions and improvements. It wasn't a full DIY, so I'm not sure it counts, but it was the last machine I had that was even partly DIY. Since then, it's seemed like machines that meet my specs are actually cheaper than buying their component parts, and that's before you factor in build time.
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The Axe Paradox at the beginning of that book haunts my nightmares.
Re:"assemble" or "reassmeble" (Score:4, Informative)
I am in the same boat so to speak. I built a custom computer a few years ago and have upgraded component by component and saved all my old parts. Eventually I replaced everything including the case, power supply hard drives, and recently I got a new CPU and motherboard. Then I took all my old parts and reinstalled them in the original case and duplicated the exact same setup I had 3 years ago before the upgrades.
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Looks like I last bought everything for a new computer in 2005. I updated the CPU/mobo to a Lynnfield i5 in 2010 with an SSD system drive and have been using that ever since. I didn't even realize it had been that long since it still works rather well.
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If I want a low end system it seems like I can't build one for less than Dell/HP/Acer/Whatever sells them.
I suppose it depends on how "low-end" you are looking for and how long you want it to last. One of my biggest pet peeves with pre-built systems is the power supply they put in them. Half the time they don't even meet the minimum recommended voltage and leave no room for additional drives or video cards. Nor do they leave any room for capacitor aging. They also have a very high failure rate, and are terribly inefficient. So long term, they don't do you much good.
Cheap PSU's also tend to like company in thei
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